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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:36 am Post Number: #541 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
MegaMav wrote:
its 10" from the pin on the motion hole line for symmetrics
its 11" from the pin on the motion hold line for asymmetrics.


Those numbers may need to be adjusted for a small amount of bowlers to remain flare safe. The ideal location for the MOtion Hole ends up being 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring at least 10" from the pin avoiding the bowtie.

I just put a Motion hole in a Mojave (if it is still categorized as a Motion Hole). The ball only had a 2 3/8" pin. Bowler needed pin beside ring finger (PAP of 6" over and 1 3/8" up) which put the CG very high on center-line (& PSA marker questionably close to NAP if thumb-hole and Motion hole close to thumb axis did not bring PSA back towards the PAP, I gambled). Ball had 2.6 oz top wt and bowler uses Mrs. finger inserts.
To remove finger wt. with Motion hole (after drilling fingers 3 1/2" deep), I had to move the hole to 9" and keep it in the finger half of the ball. I was just curious about how much difference in reaction would I have expected compared to if I could have used a ball with a longer pin to CG distance & been able to use the recommended 10" hole (drilling the Mojave as a symmetrical)? or would the ideal have been 11" ?


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:55 am Post Number: #542 Post
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MOtion Hole Experiment Results

Step-by-step details below but, in short, the experiment came to a premature end. After drilling the layout, test shots were made to check for flare-ring crossover. Results: no crossover and near perfect desired ball motion. There was no point in continuing.

1. Ordered a Low RG/High Diff ball with a long pin. Top weight came in at 3.3-oz; pin at 4-4.5"

2. Confirmed actual CG; 1/8' off mfg's mark

3. Confirmed bowler's PAP; one tick shy of 5"

4. Drilled layout with pin to right of ring finger; placed 1/2" away
Final CG Position: 1-5/8" above center of thumb hole (on centerline, below midline)

5. Extended a line from center of thumb hole, through center of pin, to far backside of ball

6. Marked spot on extended line 10" from center of pin; placed tape over spot

7. Took 6 initial test shots on fresh league pattern: no crossover and all strikes

8. Made more test shots on stale league pattern while changing feet positions, targets and speed; excellent results after slight adjustments

9. Returned to fresh pattern to confirm earlier results; same results: medium arc through center oil to breakpoint, decisive backend move towards pocket; very strong continuation through pins

10. Ball was reacting so well, there was no point in drilling MOtion Hole

11. Static weights were perfect.

12. Will wait for next two weeks' experiences before reconsidering MOtion Hole drilling


Additional Notes:

Bowled pattern was similar to Main Street, 41' with medium oil.

Bowler is senior, 220-revs @ 14.5-mph

Mid-priced ball rated for medium conditions.

15# ball = RG 2.46 / Diff .048 (actual ball is 14lbs-3-oz, but mfg never published any other specs). Coverstock is reactive pearl with mica. OOB = (¿1500?) polished. Symmetric core is a fat, rounded cylinder (classic buoy).

BTM Review Specs:
5.5 torque (1-10) 14 length (1-25) 14 backend (1-20) 46 total hook (1-100)
44' Oily pattern ratings (stroker/tweener/carnker): 5/6/6
41' Medium pattern ratings: 9/9/9.5
38' Dry pattern ratings: 8/7/6
39' sport pattern ratings: 7/7/7

BJI Review Ratings:
46 hook (35-60+) 16 length (8-19+) 15.5 breakpoint (10-18+)


Bummer we didn't get to see MOtion Hole in action, but very pleased with ball reaction!
Ball was selected as likely candidate for bowler and intended lane conditions. We thought the MOtion Hole would give both a needed boost.


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:49 am Post Number: #543 Post
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Mo, any updated/new information forthcoming for drilling MOtion Hole in asymmetric balls? Gotta a new ball and wanted to check before I drilled it. If there's something coming out soon I'll wait to drill.

Thanks

KyBob

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PAP = 4"< x 1"^
Speed = 18-19 off hand
Rev Rate = 250-275
AR = 45*-50*
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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:51 pm Post Number: #544 Post
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I know the optimal specs for laying out a ball with a MOtion hole call for a 3" pin and TW between 2.2 and 2.7 ounces. My question is, for bowlers with longer spans, like myself whose ring finger cut-to-cut is 4-3/4", placing the pin above the ring finger (based on my PAP of 4-1/2") this would place the pin in my ring finger unless I shift the CG up the grip centerline then I would wind up with more finger weight, true? So my final question is, can a ball with a pin greater than 3" (say 3-3/4' or 4") be sufficient? For me this would technically put the pin about 1/2'-5/8" above the pin based on a 4" pin.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated,


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:24 pm Post Number: #545 Post
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patpatterson wrote:
I know the optimal specs for laying out a ball with a MOtion hole call for a 3" pin and TW between 2.2 and 2.7 ounces. My question is, for bowlers with longer spans, like myself whose ring finger cut-to-cut is 4-3/4", placing the pin above the ring finger (based on my PAP of 4-1/2") this would place the pin in my ring finger unless I shift the CG up the grip centerline then I would wind up with more finger weight, true? So my final question is, can a ball with a pin greater than 3" (say 3-3/4' or 4") be sufficient? For me this would technically put the pin about 1/2'-5/8" above the pin based on a 4" pin.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated,


Hi, There . . .

If you'll note my entry above, I used a long pin ball and it worked great. I believe a 3" pin is a minimum recommendation, not an absolute.

Given your personal grip span, a 4-1/2" pin would keep you from drilling through it, plus lower the CG on the centerline. Someone posted that a CG below the midline is better, because it weights the thumb — but I don't understand the actual benefit, and it begs the question Are finger weighted / short pin balls any good? If the latter were so, who would sell or buy short pin balls?

Something to keep in mind is that this whole thing is an experiment based upon theoretical and empirical evidence.

Therefore, what you're doing is a test , one with a high potential for proving the anticipated results.

Hope this helps.


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:30 pm Post Number: #546 Post
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Pat,

VAL angle on this layout will dictate the shape of the hook zone.
Pin in the ring finger is OK.
We want to get Pin to PAP distance between 3" and 4.5".

Note: In doing 4 of these MOtion hole balls now, expect the Low RG axis to move up between 3/4" and 1" on the MOtion hole line.
Most motion holes end up slightly in the finger quadrant, so I would recommend that if you have to go long or short on the CG getting to the center of grip, go with slightly short.

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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:19 am Post Number: #547 Post
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Just thought I would give folks a review of my experimentation with the MOtion Hole. I've tried it in two balls so far. The first was an old Circle Athletics Hard Core. I picked it up very cheap, and it was an undrilled, 3.5" pin out "blem". What made it a blem was the 1.75 ounce top weight, so it was perfect. The second was a single plug Visionary Granite Gargoyle (particle coverstock) to see what it would do with more surface. My "stock" release gives me an axis of 5" over and 0.75" up, so I used a "pin beside" layout. It gave me a pin-to-axis distance of 3.25". In both cases, I had to move the hole to 10.5" to avoid flare. I am normally a medium speed, medium rev, high rotation, low tilt player.

I can tell you that without the hole and with a 0.75" hole, 1" hole, and 1.25" hole, neither ball gave me much of a reaction at all. I put a coat of polish on them and HOLY SMOKES what a difference! I have NEVER had a ball that had this much reaction in the last 15'. Messengers flying all over the place. High flush to "ticklers", everything carries. The only problems with the entry angle and continuation are the occasional 8 pins (I'm left handed) that are SO solid and explosive that they're almost worth leaving just to see the reactions on the other guy's faces.

One other point I'd like to make. I've been working on my release to try and get more tilt. In doing so, my axis has moved from 5" over to 4" over, with the same 0.75" up. This puts the pin at only 2.25" from the new axis. I did not see a huge difference in reaction. Maybe a bit longer due to less flare, but seems to rev up a but quicker ("low RG" drill?) and still very usable.

Bottom line: I'm really excited about this layout. It lets me play my stroker/tweener game with as much entry angle and power at the pins as the high rev guys. Being a "more experienced" player (translation: "old"), I would go so far as to say that I believe this layout may very well have extended my competitive career by a substantial margin. Sincere thanks to Mo and everyone else who made this happen!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:56 pm Post Number: #548 Post
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Congratulations to Alexandra Morra, winner today of ISBT ( senior bowling tour) stop in Antwerpen , Belgium. She has been rolling a symmetrical ball ( Storm Manic) low 16, drilled Motion Hole. Qualification average on 12 games 227 scratch. Final ( round robin 5 games) 248 average!
All final games bowled with Manic MOtion Hole.


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:10 am Post Number: #549 Post
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Since I will be getting a new Endless Nightmare to replace my Hellraiser Revenge I'm thinking of using the MOtion hole in the EN and have contacted my ball driller to see if he is up on the new technique. Since the EN is a stronger ball being an Asymmetric you would think a MOtion hole would be the perfect set up to get it down the lane further with more backend reaction. Am I wrong or right?

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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:36 am Post Number: #550 Post
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Qman wrote:
Since I will be getting a new Endless Nightmare to replace my Hellraiser Revenge I'm thinking of using the MOtion hole in the EN and have contacted my ball driller to see if he is up on the new technique. Since the EN is a stronger ball being an Asymmetric you would think a MOtion hole would be the perfect set up to get it down the lane further with more backend reaction. Am I wrong or right?


I don't suggest MOtion Hole drillings for asymmetrical balls. I suggest using the latest expanded Radical asymmetrical drilling instructions for ALL asyms. They are attached to this post.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:04 pm Post Number: #551 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
Qman wrote:
Since I will be getting a new Endless Nightmare to replace my Hellraiser Revenge I'm thinking of using the MOtion hole in the EN and have contacted my ball driller to see if he is up on the new technique. Since the EN is a stronger ball being an Asymmetric you would think a MOtion hole would be the perfect set up to get it down the lane further with more backend reaction. Am I wrong or right?


I don't suggest MOtion Hole drillings for asymmetrical balls. I suggest using the latest expanded Radical asymmetrical drilling instructions for ALL asyms. They are attached to this post.

I added this to the wiki under the Radical drilling sheets:
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... rer_Sheets


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:01 pm Post Number: #552 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
I don't suggest MOtion Hole drillings for asymmetrical balls. I suggest using the latest expanded Radical asymmetrical drilling instructions for ALL asyms. They are attached to this post.[/color]


These specify "for medium track bowlers". What about those of us who have high tracks?


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:50 pm Post Number: #553 Post
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RMColorado wrote:
Mo Pinel wrote:
I don't suggest MOtion Hole drillings for asymmetrical balls. I suggest using the latest expanded Radical asymmetrical drilling instructions for ALL asyms. They are attached to this post.[/color]


These specify "for medium track bowlers". What about those of us who have high tracks?

There is a box in the lower right corner with the adjustments for high and low tracks.

I edited where I placed the revised asymmetrical instructions in the wiki. Seemed less cluttered to put the revised asymmetrical drilling instructions in place of the old version. In the wiki (Main Category), click on Pro Shop Information, scroll down to Manufacturer Drill Sheets (under LAYOUTS)and click on it to find the newer version of the layout instructions.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... nformation


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:26 pm Post Number: #554 Post
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RMColorado wrote:
Mo Pinel wrote:
I don't suggest MOtion Hole drillings for asymmetrical balls. I suggest using the latest expanded Radical asymmetrical drilling instructions for ALL asyms. They are attached to this post.[/color]


These specify "for medium track bowlers". What about those of us who have high tracks?


Please read the box in the lower right hand corner of each layout. Already done!


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:02 pm Post Number: #555 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
RMColorado wrote:
Mo Pinel wrote:
I don't suggest MOtion Hole drillings for asymmetrical balls. I suggest using the latest expanded Radical asymmetrical drilling instructions for ALL asyms. They are attached to this post.[/color]


These specify "for medium track bowlers". What about those of us who have high tracks?


Please read the box in the lower right hand corner of each layout. Already done!


:oops: Thank You. I see 'em now, plain as can be. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:39 pm Post Number: #556 Post
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RMColorado wrote:
Mo Pinel wrote:
RMColorado wrote:
Mo Pinel wrote:
I don't suggest MOtion Hole drillings for asymmetrical balls. I suggest using the latest expanded Radical asymmetrical drilling instructions for ALL asyms. They are attached to this post.[/color]


These specify "for medium track bowlers". What about those of us who have high tracks?


Please read the box in the lower right hand corner of each layout. Already done!


:oops: Thank You. I see 'em now, plain as can be. :oops:


Happens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:03 pm Post Number: #557 Post
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I have two questions.

Is the 10" from the pin to the center of the drill hole or to the front cut size of the hole...

2nd, is this drilling safe with switch grip switch thumbs., havent seen much talk about it. Just curious i wanted to try it a roto-grip wrecker this weekend.


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:06 pm Post Number: #558 Post
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catman700us wrote:
I have two questions.

Is the 10" from the pin to the center of the drill hole or to the front cut size of the hole...

2nd, is this drilling safe with switch grip switch thumbs., havent seen much talk about it. Just curious i wanted to try it a roto-grip wrecker this weekend.

I try to hit the center of the hole.
Here is a topic about switch grips & motion hole:
viewtopic.php?t=7406


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:13 am Post Number: #559 Post
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The instructions for the location of the MOtion Hole are all over this site and in the Wiki. As for the depth, 4" for Switch Grips, & 3 1/2" for Vise Its.


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:17 pm Post Number: #560 Post
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Hi!
I'm from the Ukraine and here I have no ProShop to get an advice from.
I have a question about the MotionHole placement.

As you recommend for balls with symm. core the distance from the Pin to the center of the hole must be as close as possible to 10 inches on a line from the center of thumb hole through the Pin. Mo wrote he liked pin to PAP distances from 2" to 3 1/4" on symm for 20* tilt. I have the tilt 23* and PAP 4-3/4 over and 1/4 up. Is it mean I should use this distance in the MoHole layout (Pin beside)? In this case it will be dual angle eprox 120* 3-1/4 40*. Is this possible and correct?
Sorry for my English. I hope I was understood.


Last edited by Pavel on Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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