*NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Ask Mo Pinel and the bowling industry's best your general questions, and get straight answers.

Moderators: Mo Pinel, ballspinner, MathIsTruth, purduepaul

Forum rules
Ask Mo Pinel and the bowling industry's best your questions, and get straight answers.
This forum is moderated exclusively by Mo & Friends.
Locked
User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Mo Pinel » April 3rd, 2013, 6:44 am

DAVIDINIL wrote:Gotcha Mo. I don't know the technicals behind it, but I know what I see. And I see increased continuation thru the pins.

Me and some fellow bowling chat folks are working on the theory that round cores with fat bellies are better candidates for motion holes than balls that are more odd shaped or have longer/taller shapes. Are we on the right path in this thinking?
No, sir!

DAVIDINIL
Member
Member
Posts: 145
Joined: October 10th, 2012, 1:32 am
THS Average: 228
Positive Axis Point: 5 right x 5/8 up
Speed: 18 CATS
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: storm

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by DAVIDINIL » April 3rd, 2013, 12:41 pm

Mo Pinel wrote: No, sir!
Good to know. Is it better for the core to be symmetrical around a central point, AKA radially symmetrical? As soon as I wrote this I realized that if you answer yes, then that would indicate that Asym cores are less "motion hole-able" than some symmetrics. But what the heck, I will let the question stand.
Press the + button if you feel I've been helpful

Rev Rate - 350
Speed (CATS) - 17
Axis Tilt - 15
Axis Rotation - 30-60
Sport Shot Avg - 208
THS Avg - 229

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Mo Pinel » April 3rd, 2013, 1:35 pm

DAVIDINIL wrote: Good to know. Is it better for the core to be symmetrical around a central point, AKA radially symmetrical? As soon as I wrote this I realized that if you answer yes, then that would indicate that Asym cores are less "motion hole-able" than some symmetrics. But what the heck, I will let the question stand.
Now you're getting into my field, ball design. I'm not comfortable with a public discussion in that area. It's my livelihood. It's much more complex than it looks. Research my patent on offset core design and you'll start to get an idea about this field. It's under Maurice L. Pinel, Jr.

DAVIDINIL
Member
Member
Posts: 145
Joined: October 10th, 2012, 1:32 am
THS Average: 228
Positive Axis Point: 5 right x 5/8 up
Speed: 18 CATS
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: storm

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by DAVIDINIL » April 3rd, 2013, 4:05 pm

That's completely fair Mo. I appreciate your response. I certainly don't want to take away your ability to monetize all the hard work you and your crew have put into design work. You deserve all the good things that come from that work.

I and all the gang here appreciate that you've shared what you have shared. All the questions are just a reflection of the high interest level we have for the topic.

Best regards,
David Henson
Press the + button if you feel I've been helpful

Rev Rate - 350
Speed (CATS) - 17
Axis Tilt - 15
Axis Rotation - 30-60
Sport Shot Avg - 208
THS Avg - 229

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Mo Pinel » April 3rd, 2013, 7:02 pm

DAVIDINIL wrote:That's completely fair Mo. I appreciate your response. I certainly don't want to take away your ability to monetize all the hard work you and your crew have put into design work. You deserve all the good things that come from that work.

I and all the gang here appreciate that you've shared what you have shared. All the questions are just a reflection of the high interest level we have for the topic.

Best regards,
David Henson
Not a problem. That's exactly as I thought it was.

Thud300
Member
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: September 25th, 2012, 4:46 am
Preferred Company: Storm

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Thud300 » April 5th, 2013, 3:03 pm

On the location of the motion hole on asyms, the video appears to be making two different statements... At 5:45 in the video he states to place the hole 11" from the PSA, but the talking points at the end state to place the hole 11" from the pin on the pin-PSA line... Please clarify?

User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4528
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 230
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 5.25 Over 5/8 Up
Speed: 15.25 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 20
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - The Closer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswck - Forest Quantum
Light Oil Ball: DV8 - Poison Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by MegaMav » April 5th, 2013, 3:08 pm

its 10" from the pin on the motion hole line for symmetrics
its 11" from the pin on the motion hold line for asymmetrics.
“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Mo Pinel » April 5th, 2013, 3:50 pm

MegaMav wrote:its 10" from the pin on the motion hole line for symmetrics
its 11" from the pin on the motion hold line for asymmetrics.
Those numbers may need to be adjusted for a small amount of bowlers to remain flare safe. The ideal location for the MOtion Hole ends up being 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring at least 10" from the pin avoiding the bowtie.

Binkster
Member
Member
Posts: 169
Joined: October 7th, 2010, 1:50 am
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4 rt and 3/4 up
Speed: 17-18 off hand
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 20
Axis Rotation: 50
Preferred Company: Hammer & Radical

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Binkster » April 5th, 2013, 4:07 pm

Mo Pinel wrote: Those numbers may need to be adjusted for a small amount of bowlers to remain flare safe. The ideal location for the MOtion Hole ends up being 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring at least 10" from the pin avoiding the bowtie.
Mo - Just for clarification purposes, when you say the hole should be 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring. Are you referring to the center of the MOtion hole or the edge of the MOtion hole? I'm assuming the center of the hole should be 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring???
Binkster
Speed = 17-17.5 off hand
Rev Rate = 300-350
Tilt = ~20-24*
AR = 45-55
PAP = 4 3/4 rt and 3/4 up

"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him" - James D. Miles

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Mo Pinel » April 5th, 2013, 5:35 pm

Binkster wrote: Mo - Just for clarification purposes, when you say the hole should be 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring. Are you referring to the center of the MOtion hole or the edge of the MOtion hole? I'm assuming the center of the hole should be 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring???
Center of the MOtion Hole.

bowlerzs
Member
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: November 14th, 2012, 1:30 am

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by bowlerzs » April 5th, 2013, 5:59 pm

Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but is there a reason for using the beside finger pin for >5 over pap? Or is this to help make sure the hole will end up in a flare safe spot?

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Mo Pinel » April 5th, 2013, 7:11 pm

bowlerzs wrote:Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but is there a reason for using the beside finger pin for >5 over pap? Or is this to help make sure the hole will end up in a flare safe spot?
Think about pin to PAP distance!

ahhbach
Member
Member
Posts: 103
Joined: October 13th, 2011, 2:17 pm
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/4 over 7/8 up
Speed: 16 2 Quibica
Rev Rate: 400
Axis Rotation: 20
Preferred Company: No Pref

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by ahhbach » April 5th, 2013, 8:04 pm

just out of curiosity, does this somehow change the dynamics of the core? or are we putting the top weight back into the ball

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Mo Pinel » April 5th, 2013, 8:45 pm

ahhbach wrote:just out of curiosity, does this somehow change the dynamics of the core? or are we putting the top weight back into the ball
It has nothing to do with top weight, as has been stated many times in this thread. Rich Sposato may be the only one who believes that and he's delusional. If you want to test me out, do a ball with a MOtion Hole that rolls good. Measure the static weights. Get another ball of the same type with a lot of TW. Place the pin and cg in the same place as the MOtion Holed ball. Drill the fingers shallow and get that ball to have the same statics as the MOtion Holed ball, but NO MOtion Hole. The two balls will roll like they're from different planets! End of story!

It has to do with the mass properties of the drilled balls and the gyroscopic properties of the drilled balls. If you have a CAD program, do your own research.

User avatar
Triplicate
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1410
Joined: September 2nd, 2010, 12:04 am
THS Average: 220
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 x 1 1/2
Speed: 16-18 at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 7-10
Axis Rotation: 45+-
Location: Canada

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Triplicate » April 6th, 2013, 12:39 am

Mo Pinel wrote: Think about pin to PAP distance!
Mo... Is there an ideal distance or should I say what's the ideal range for this distance :?:
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the Image on the bottom right.

bowlerzs
Member
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: November 14th, 2012, 1:30 am

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by bowlerzs » April 6th, 2013, 1:03 am

Mo Pinel wrote: Think about pin to PAP distance!
So you want the pin in a high flaring position? That was my main question because this puts the pin at about 4" and with me being rev dominant, causes a lot of flare.

JohnP
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by JohnP » April 6th, 2013, 1:12 am

Thud300 wrote:On the location of the motion hole on asyms, the video appears to be making two different statements... At 5:45 in the video he states to place the hole 11" from the PSA, but the talking points at the end state to place the hole 11" from the pin on the pin-PSA line... Please clarify?
I'm not sure we've answered his question yet. For both symmetricals and asymmetricals the distance, 10" for symmetricals or 11" for asymmetricals, is measured from the pin and on the pin to PSA line. For symmetricals consider the PSA to be located in the thumb hole. -- JohnP

bowlerzs
Member
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: November 14th, 2012, 1:30 am

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by bowlerzs » April 6th, 2013, 3:04 am

Mo Pinel wrote: Think about pin to PAP distance!
So it is to create a lot of flare? I ask because this puts the pin at about 4" for me and with me being rev dominant and makes for a good deal of flare.

Binkster
Member
Member
Posts: 169
Joined: October 7th, 2010, 1:50 am
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4 rt and 3/4 up
Speed: 17-18 off hand
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 20
Axis Rotation: 50
Preferred Company: Hammer & Radical

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Binkster » April 6th, 2013, 3:16 am

Triplicate wrote: Mo... Is there an ideal distance or should I say what's the ideal range for this distance :?:
Hey Trip,

I'm going to give this a shot but you certainly won't hurt my feelings if you seek another opinion.

You want to be certain you have a pin to PAP distance that will ensure plenty of flare (you definitely need the flare because this drilling is inherently long and even with the high flare pin position it's easy, for me at least, to throw the ball through the breakpoint - especially if you miss left). But... you also need the pin to be very close to the ring finger (with cg on centerline) so that when you measure 10" (for syms) from the pin on a line drawn from the center of the thumb through the pin you end up in a position where you will not influence side weight once the MOtion hole is drilled. This hole could be quite large so if not near the centerline you could throw your side weight out of whack.

Mo (and other experts) - please correct any misguided thoughts here (I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this concept).
Binkster
Speed = 17-17.5 off hand
Rev Rate = 300-350
Tilt = ~20-24*
AR = 45-55
PAP = 4 3/4 rt and 3/4 up

"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him" - James D. Miles

User avatar
Triplicate
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1410
Joined: September 2nd, 2010, 12:04 am
THS Average: 220
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 x 1 1/2
Speed: 16-18 at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 7-10
Axis Rotation: 45+-
Location: Canada

Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Triplicate » April 6th, 2013, 7:49 pm

Not the answer I was looking for. I'm looking for specifics.
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the Image on the bottom right.

Locked