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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:44 am Post Number: #441 Post
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DAVIDINIL wrote:
Gotcha Mo. I don't know the technicals behind it, but I know what I see. And I see increased continuation thru the pins.

Me and some fellow bowling chat folks are working on the theory that round cores with fat bellies are better candidates for motion holes than balls that are more odd shaped or have longer/taller shapes. Are we on the right path in this thinking?


No, sir!


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:41 pm Post Number: #442 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
DAVIDINIL wrote:
Gotcha Mo. I don't know the technicals behind it, but I know what I see. And I see increased continuation thru the pins.

Me and some fellow bowling chat folks are working on the theory that round cores with fat bellies are better candidates for motion holes than balls that are more odd shaped or have longer/taller shapes. Are we on the right path in this thinking?


No, sir!


Good to know. Is it better for the core to be symmetrical around a central point, AKA radially symmetrical? As soon as I wrote this I realized that if you answer yes, then that would indicate that Asym cores are less "motion hole-able" than some symmetrics. But what the heck, I will let the question stand.

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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:35 pm Post Number: #443 Post
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DAVIDINIL wrote:
Mo Pinel wrote:
DAVIDINIL wrote:
Gotcha Mo. I don't know the technicals behind it, but I know what I see. And I see increased continuation thru the pins.

Me and some fellow bowling chat folks are working on the theory that round cores with fat bellies are better candidates for motion holes than balls that are more odd shaped or have longer/taller shapes. Are we on the right path in this thinking?


No, sir!


Good to know. Is it better for the core to be symmetrical around a central point, AKA radially symmetrical? As soon as I wrote this I realized that if you answer yes, then that would indicate that Asym cores are less "motion hole-able" than some symmetrics. But what the heck, I will let the question stand.


Now you're getting into my field, ball design. I'm not comfortable with a public discussion in that area. It's my livelihood. It's much more complex than it looks. Research my patent on offset core design and you'll start to get an idea about this field. It's under Maurice L. Pinel, Jr.


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:05 pm Post Number: #444 Post
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That's completely fair Mo. I appreciate your response. I certainly don't want to take away your ability to monetize all the hard work you and your crew have put into design work. You deserve all the good things that come from that work.

I and all the gang here appreciate that you've shared what you have shared. All the questions are just a reflection of the high interest level we have for the topic.

Best regards,
David Henson

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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:02 pm Post Number: #445 Post
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DAVIDINIL wrote:
That's completely fair Mo. I appreciate your response. I certainly don't want to take away your ability to monetize all the hard work you and your crew have put into design work. You deserve all the good things that come from that work.

I and all the gang here appreciate that you've shared what you have shared. All the questions are just a reflection of the high interest level we have for the topic.

Best regards,
David Henson


Not a problem. That's exactly as I thought it was.


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:03 pm Post Number: #446 Post
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On the location of the motion hole on asyms, the video appears to be making two different statements... At 5:45 in the video he states to place the hole 11" from the PSA, but the talking points at the end state to place the hole 11" from the pin on the pin-PSA line... Please clarify?


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:08 pm Post Number: #447 Post
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its 10" from the pin on the motion hole line for symmetrics
its 11" from the pin on the motion hold line for asymmetrics.

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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:50 pm Post Number: #448 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
its 10" from the pin on the motion hole line for symmetrics
its 11" from the pin on the motion hold line for asymmetrics.


Those numbers may need to be adjusted for a small amount of bowlers to remain flare safe. The ideal location for the MOtion Hole ends up being 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring at least 10" from the pin avoiding the bowtie.


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:07 pm Post Number: #449 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
MegaMav wrote:
its 10" from the pin on the motion hole line for symmetrics
its 11" from the pin on the motion hold line for asymmetrics.


Those numbers may need to be adjusted for a small amount of bowlers to remain flare safe. The ideal location for the MOtion Hole ends up being 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring at least 10" from the pin avoiding the bowtie.


Mo - Just for clarification purposes, when you say the hole should be 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring. Are you referring to the center of the MOtion hole or the edge of the MOtion hole? I'm assuming the center of the hole should be 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring???

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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:35 pm Post Number: #450 Post
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Binkster wrote:
Mo Pinel wrote:
MegaMav wrote:
its 10" from the pin on the motion hole line for symmetrics
its 11" from the pin on the motion hold line for asymmetrics.


Those numbers may need to be adjusted for a small amount of bowlers to remain flare safe. The ideal location for the MOtion Hole ends up being 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring at least 10" from the pin avoiding the bowtie.


Mo - Just for clarification purposes, when you say the hole should be 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring. Are you referring to the center of the MOtion hole or the edge of the MOtion hole? I'm assuming the center of the hole should be 1 1/4" from the initial flare ring???


Center of the MOtion Hole.


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:59 pm Post Number: #451 Post
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Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but is there a reason for using the beside finger pin for >5 over pap? Or is this to help make sure the hole will end up in a flare safe spot?


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:11 pm Post Number: #452 Post
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bowlerzs wrote:
Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but is there a reason for using the beside finger pin for >5 over pap? Or is this to help make sure the hole will end up in a flare safe spot?


Think about pin to PAP distance!


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:04 pm Post Number: #453 Post
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just out of curiosity, does this somehow change the dynamics of the core? or are we putting the top weight back into the ball


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:45 pm Post Number: #454 Post
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ahhbach wrote:
just out of curiosity, does this somehow change the dynamics of the core? or are we putting the top weight back into the ball


It has nothing to do with top weight, as has been stated many times in this thread. Rich Sposato may be the only one who believes that and he's delusional. If you want to test me out, do a ball with a MOtion Hole that rolls good. Measure the static weights. Get another ball of the same type with a lot of TW. Place the pin and cg in the same place as the MOtion Holed ball. Drill the fingers shallow and get that ball to have the same statics as the MOtion Holed ball, but NO MOtion Hole. The two balls will roll like they're from different planets! End of story!

It has to do with the mass properties of the drilled balls and the gyroscopic properties of the drilled balls. If you have a CAD program, do your own research.


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:39 am Post Number: #455 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
bowlerzs wrote:
Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but is there a reason for using the beside finger pin for >5 over pap? Or is this to help make sure the hole will end up in a flare safe spot?


Think about pin to PAP distance!

Mo... Is there an ideal distance or should I say what's the ideal range for this distance :?:

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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:03 am Post Number: #456 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
bowlerzs wrote:
Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but is there a reason for using the beside finger pin for >5 over pap? Or is this to help make sure the hole will end up in a flare safe spot?


Think about pin to PAP distance!


So you want the pin in a high flaring position? That was my main question because this puts the pin at about 4" and with me being rev dominant, causes a lot of flare.


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:12 am Post Number: #457 Post
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Thud300 wrote:
On the location of the motion hole on asyms, the video appears to be making two different statements... At 5:45 in the video he states to place the hole 11" from the PSA, but the talking points at the end state to place the hole 11" from the pin on the pin-PSA line... Please clarify?


I'm not sure we've answered his question yet. For both symmetricals and asymmetricals the distance, 10" for symmetricals or 11" for asymmetricals, is measured from the pin and on the pin to PSA line. For symmetricals consider the PSA to be located in the thumb hole. -- JohnP


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:04 am Post Number: #458 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
bowlerzs wrote:
Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but is there a reason for using the beside finger pin for >5 over pap? Or is this to help make sure the hole will end up in a flare safe spot?


Think about pin to PAP distance!


So it is to create a lot of flare? I ask because this puts the pin at about 4" for me and with me being rev dominant and makes for a good deal of flare.


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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:16 am Post Number: #459 Post
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Triplicate wrote:
Mo Pinel wrote:
bowlerzs wrote:
Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but is there a reason for using the beside finger pin for >5 over pap? Or is this to help make sure the hole will end up in a flare safe spot?


Think about pin to PAP distance!

Mo... Is there an ideal distance or should I say what's the ideal range for this distance :?:


Hey Trip,

I'm going to give this a shot but you certainly won't hurt my feelings if you seek another opinion.

You want to be certain you have a pin to PAP distance that will ensure plenty of flare (you definitely need the flare because this drilling is inherently long and even with the high flare pin position it's easy, for me at least, to throw the ball through the breakpoint - especially if you miss left). But... you also need the pin to be very close to the ring finger (with cg on centerline) so that when you measure 10" (for syms) from the pin on a line drawn from the center of the thumb through the pin you end up in a position where you will not influence side weight once the MOtion hole is drilled. This hole could be quite large so if not near the centerline you could throw your side weight out of whack.

Mo (and other experts) - please correct any misguided thoughts here (I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this concept).

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 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:49 pm Post Number: #460 Post
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Not the answer I was looking for. I'm looking for specifics.

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