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Jmannering129 wrote:When using the MOtion hole on an asymmetrical ball do you measure the 11 inches from the marked PSA of the ball, or are we still measuring from the center of the thumb hole? I would assume the marked PSA or the PSA found by use of a determinator if available, but where to go from here? I would love to try this!
If I read this right it is draw a line from the PSA through the pin and measure 11" from the pin.
Not 100% sure.
* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
I threw it on wood lanes that had been cut and leveled this summer and uses a 40' pattern with a decent amount of volume. The cover on this ball is really not that aggressive so larger volumes of oil tend to make this ball squirt down the lane and hit fairly weak.
The first hole was 1" and I really didnt see that much change in ball reaction. It is when we used the 1 1/4" hole that the big back end showed up. Shots that were weak hits before the MOhole were now driving through the pins with power.
Unlike Mav i did get to a point where I could not get the ball back to the pocket but that is probably the difference in the coverstocks of the 2 balls. I plan on trying it Thursday night on the synth lanes at least in practice ( need to bowl my best to keep up with russelldean this week so not a good night to experiment ) so unless it is absolutely destroying the pocket it might have to wait another week to get a good testing.
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 6-06-19 **
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
I have a roto Grip Mutant Cell that Is Drilled 60 x 4.5 x 40 which Puts The pin Over my ring finger the CG in my Grip center and The psa right next To my thumb on the right side. Would It work with this layout? I ask because with asyms i asnt Sure if the psa matters when initially mapping out the ball.
Jmannering129 wrote:I have a roto Grip Mutant Cell that Is Drilled 60 x 4.5 x 40 which Puts The pin Over my ring finger the CG in my Grip center and The psa right next To my thumb on the right side. Would It work with this layout? I ask because with asyms i asnt Sure if the psa matters when initially mapping out the ball.
Its depends on your PAP, watch the video for guidelines, its all in there.
MegaMav wrote:
Its depends on your PAP, watch the video for guidelines, its all in there.
My PAP is 4 3/4 over by 1/2 up so by The videos guides t Should Be safe, I guess What Im asking is does psa position matter in the layout before the motion Hole?
Yes, it does, and the instructions reflect that.
Asymmetrics, the line starts at the PSA.
This optimally would be the actual PSA, not the marked, but if you use the marked PSA, you'll be in the ball park but unlikely to be in the necessary spot.
MegaMav wrote:Yes, it does, and the instructions reflect that.
Asymmetrics, the line starts at the PSA.
This optimally would be the actual PSA, not the marked, but if you use the marked PSA, you'll be in the ball park but unlikely to be in the necessary spot.
My question was before you find the line For The motion hole and you initially Layout The Ball, does the psa position Matter or is it based off of the pin and cg position?
Jmannering129 wrote:
My question was before you find the line For The motion hole and you initially Layout The Ball, does the psa position Matter or is it based off of the pin and cg position?
I have a Nano Pearl which had the marked PSA just to the right of the thumb-hole, pin above finger, cg was out of line to the left which put it in the center of the grip. I put a 1 1/16 hole 4" deep. had to go 3 1/2" deep with fingers. Barely legal with top wt. Hit like a marshmallow. I left everything. 8-10 split with super flush shot. Have to experiment with textures & on other conditions, but right now I think I have a lawn ornament.
Looks to me like you might want the large drilling angles.
Here is an example for a greater than 5" PAP component. If you have any questions do not hesitate to post. The ball details are mentioned above in post #37 and are in the images.
Please note the location of the MOtion hole in this example is located exactly 12" up on the grip center line and 1.5 inches over. Notice also how the hole lines up perfect, equally spaced, between the wet and dry flares.
I noticed in the ball path images that you gain about 1 degree of entry angle but not a lot of difference at the pocket. This suggests a longer / stronger break point. I went straight to the full 1.25 dia. 4" deep hole to get to the maximum results right away. No incremental steps for me.
2.5 oz of top weight before drilling is a very good starting point as is a 3" pin out. Top weight increased from -.027 to 2.31 for a total gain in top weight of 2.58 with the 1.25 hole 4" deep.
I hope this helps.
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High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the on the bottom right.
elgavachon wrote:
I have a Nano Pearl which had the marked PSA just to the right of the thumb-hole, pin above finger, cg was out of line to the left which put it in the center of the grip. I put a 1 1/16 hole 4" deep. had to go 3 1/2" deep with fingers. Barely legal with top wt. Hit like a marshmallow. I left everything. 8-10 split with super flush shot. Have to experiment with textures & on other conditions, but right now I think I have a lawn ornament.
Looks to me like you might want the large drilling angles.
I'm sure your're aware that this ball is very low RG with a high initial diff before drilling. Before the MOhole it was already prone to hook out.
I suspect now, FWIW, with this hole you've strengthened the ball substantially more at the back of the lane by the increased diffs. You've made it even more prone to hook out. It's easy to understand why it does not hit well.
Have you tried taking it to 4000 surface? Finally you can always pore some plug back in the MOhole to help get it down the lane your trying to use it on.
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the on the bottom right.
Triplicate wrote:
I'm sure your're aware that this ball is very low RG with a high initial diff before drilling. Before the MOhole it was already prone to hook out.
I suspect now, FWIW, with this hole you've strengthened the ball substantially more at the back of the lane by the increased diffs. You've made it even more prone to hook out. It's easy to understand why it does not hit well.
Have you tried taking it to 4000 surface? Finally you can always pore some plug back in the MOhole to help get it down the lane your trying to use it on.
elgavachon wrote: Have to experiment with textures & on other conditions, but right now I think I have a lawn ornament.
Looks to me like you might want the large drilling angles.
Thanks triplicate
That is what this was (an experiment). To get the longer & stronger reaction, you might need the longer Drill angles. I will post again after I do some experimenting.
Unless someone posts something to stop me, I am going to try the 85* 3 1/2 30* also. That puts the CG of the ball in the grip center and the M.B. left of the thumb with the pin just above the ring finger. Trouble is I am a medium tracker.
If I try the 90* 4 50* layout on this ball, the pin will be in the bridge right between the 2 fingers.
Jmannering129 wrote:
My question was before you find the line For The motion hole and you initially Layout The Ball, does the psa position Matter or is it based off of the pin and cg position?
I don't think it matters to any great extent since all this is used for is to get you close to a "starting position" for your tape "test trials". You want to ultimately preposition this tape anyway to dial it in to a position close but not over existing flare lines.
Please see the image below which shows an ideal hole location BEFORE and AFTER the hole is drilled.
The challenge here is to pick a position with your tape that is clear of your first WET flare and at the same time pick a position with your tape that is further away and clear of your last DRY flare. This spot is the small dot shown on the ball before drilling the MOhole.
Study this carefully and do it right the first time. The most important thing to notice here is that the DRY flares move the most after adding the MOtion hole.
I hope this helps
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High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the on the bottom right.
elgavachon wrote:Unless someone posts something to stop me, I am going to try the 85* 3 1/2 30* also. That puts the CG of the ball in the grip center and the M.B. left of the thumb with the pin just above the ring finger. Trouble is I am a medium tracker.
If I try the 90* 4 50* layout on this ball, the pin will be in the bridge right between the 2 fingers.
Why don't you give me your specs and the ball you plan to use and I'll show you exactly what the outcome will be before drilling them.
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the on the bottom right.
After playing with the blueprint software a few months ago I had very similar success when using a "crux hole" location on both symmetric and asymmetric bowling balls. Similar to what you stated on pin placement. Ideally you want the pin even with or above the fingers and the cg located near the grip center.
You then ad the "crux hole" on the bowlers center grip. Typically the 1" to 1 1/8" hole 3.5" deep worked with the best results. It greatly increased the bowling balls Diff and Int Diff as much as a p3 to p4 location. It also would raise the psa to just above the thumb hole on asymmetric bowling balls in some cases.
The main thing to watch for is flaring the thumb hole. Starting with the 3/4" to 1" hole works best.
Triplicate wrote:Why don't you give me your specs and the ball you plan to use and I'll show you exactly what the outcome will be before drilling them.
IF its an Ebonite International ball.
Core shapes are all different in different balls with similar numbers.
Your simulations will not be exact.
So, if I have sarge Easter grip, do I drill it next to the conventional ring finger or where the ring finger would be with fingertip? Going to try it tomorrow.
JBelschner wrote:So, if I have sarge Easter grip, do I drill it next to the conventional ring finger or where the ring finger would be with fingertip? Going to try it tomorrow.
I'd imagine you would just draw a circle where the finger would be if it were a fingertip grip, and plan the layout accordingly, so it is above or beside the correct location.
MegaMav wrote:
IF its an Ebonite International ball.
Core shapes are all different in different balls with similar numbers.
Your simulations will not be exact.
I appreciate your concern. I agree it will not be "exact" but I'm sure also that the results will be incredibly accurate just the same.
This is splitting hairs here based on my extensive experience and testing. Many things will in fact be exact such as the layout and flare shapes. These other very small differences don't matter here and besides your still welcome to use the general tape method described here to confirm if this makes you nervous.
I'm absolutely certain that BluePrint software's estimation, regardless of ball manufacture, will be a excellent starting point and many times better than the current procedure outline here if not dead on with it's first try.
Even with EBI balls you're advised to check all the statics to be sure the ball is legal. This will always be the case for ALL balls on the market.
The results BluePrint Software, would provide would be far better than any other method used to preciesly locate any balance hole relative to known and predictable flares after drilling.
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the on the bottom right.