*NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by JohnP »

Great video Mav, thanks. Is there a link to a written description I can use at my shop? -- JohnP
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by StrikeTheory »

I'd love to see a white paper on this as well!

Going to give this a try ASAP~
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by TomaHawk »

guruU2 wrote:Bring back the "Observation & Reality" thread: Mo has been spending some time in the "Pin nel zone" again- you know, that "twilight zone" area between hard science and the creative investigation of the given phenomena. ;)

First we had "pin out", "pin in" and "pin nel". Now we have "pin up", "pin down" "pin side" and a "pin nel" hole. Father time is not slowing down Mo nor the other "mad scientist" Carmen Salvino, the "spook" himself. No nursing home for these "old farts" :lol: Just think, they work for the same company now. Lets put them a room together and watch "the creative smarts" runneth over.
Are we "muddying" the "new" philosophy now. This is the perfect example of what I call "Linear Layouts"
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by MathIsTruth »

JohnP wrote:Great video Mav, thanks. Is there a link to a written description I can use at my shop? -- JohnP

Written descriptions have been wrote and will be made available in the near future, I would say by the end of the month. We will post them and include a copy in the wiki.

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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by tdub36tjt »

Gonna try this on a Sure thing I have drilled with pin over the ring. Don't really care for the ball right now as misses right have zero chance. We'll see if this helps....
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by MoRichBowler300 »

Do you still use the pin to the side or above the ring finger technique if the person has a sarge Easter grip?
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by EricHartwell »

How much stronger is the MoHole layout as compared to the Dbl Thumb layout?
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by KYBOB »

How critical is the 4" depth of the hole? Will 3" work ? 2"?
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by tdub36tjt »

From what I understand this hole adds length and backend where the double thumb hole would only add backend so I think it would be different by adding length. I will try it out on that Sure Thing tomorrow was on my way to the shop to try it today but had to go take care of something else......I will report back after I try it. I generally have tons of issues with hook out so if it adds length like said and still adds backend it might be useful for me.....
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by MathIsTruth »

tdub36tjt wrote:Gonna try this on a Sure thing I have drilled with pin over the ring. Don't really care for the ball right now as misses right have zero chance. We'll see if this helps....

Look forward to hearing back from you. Keep us posted.
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by MDD »

Will this layout/hole will be effective/safe for Low Tilt/High Track Bowlers? Since the pin next to the ring finger seems to be borderline flare un-safe for most low tilt bowlers, will there be a modified layout (i.e. pin over ring finger) or will it not be recommended for low tilt players?
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by MathIsTruth »

MoRichBowler300 wrote:Do you still use the pin to the side or above the ring finger technique if the person has a sarge Easter grip?
Yes, it completely depends on the horizontal component of the PAP.
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by MathIsTruth »

KYBOB wrote:How critical is the 4" depth of the hole? Will 3" work ? 2"?
Start with a smaller diameter hole 4" deep and then increase the diameter of the hole to increase motion.
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by MegaMav »

tdub36tjt wrote:From what I understand this hole adds length and backend where the double thumb hole would only add backend so I think it would be different by adding length.
How it was explained to me is, "more of the hook occurs on the backend".
To me, that means further down the lane, but I may be mistaken.
Where as Double Thumb is a layout that hooks as much but earlier.

The main attraction of the layout is the mechanical advantage on the pindeck.

I leave it to Steve on Mo to comment further and clarify, I dont want to mislead anyone with assumptions.
My video was meant to be an introduction, how-to, and demonstration.

We'll have to rely on the originators of this layout to comment with data and specifics.
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by guruU2 »

TomaHawk wrote: "Linear Layouts"
"Linear Layouts", I like it. A new term to add to the lexicon.
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by MathIsTruth »

JohnP wrote:Great video Mav, thanks. Is there a link to a written description I can use at my shop? -- JohnP

This is the directions for the MOtion Hole for symmetrical layouts. Mo will post the entire suggested layouts for symmetrical balls at a later date. Hope this helps.


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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Triplicate »

As promised... here are some initial results from my simulation using BluePrint (http://www.blueprintbowling.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

I must say how wonderful this software tool is for these kind of blind issues. I say blind because we don't know exactly where this hole position should be for best results and for meeting the objectives of this balance hole location for every bowlers grip and delivery specs.

BluePrint will locate the best, strongest and safest, location for this balance hole for every bowler. BluePrint answers all the questions and removes all the mystery associated with this balance hole by providing the best estimation to help locate this hole for every unique layout, grip specs and delivery specs you may be involved with.

Very early in my simulations, it has become very clear that a lot of unexpected issues may go wrong, not unlike the Voodoo layout thread. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6929" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also relevant to this topic is the thread... Understanding Effect of Balance Holes on Drilled Syms.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6679&hilit=understanding&start=40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; where as in post 45 we seen very high differentials possible with balance holes on the grip center axis area.

And the very popular thread "Bowling Ball Track Flare Study." viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6000&hilit=ball" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which is also a great read.

A comparison between the Voodoo Layout and the MOtion Hole may be in order later but for now let's just say they are similar in nature but at the same time have very different objectives, features and advantages.

In this simulation I selected an Ebonite Game Changer. This is a low RG ball, high diff. symmetrical ball. I used the coordinates mention in the video of 84 x 4.25 x 40 with 4 1/8 cut to cut spans.

One of the first items of discovery is how severe a balance hole of this size, in this area of the bowling ball, will tug at the flare lines. Please see image "Flare Precautions.jpg" below. The greater change is with regards to the dry flares. The dry flares and in particular the ending dry flares move a lot. The wet flares are affected but remember the first oil ring starts very close to the same location with or without a MOtion hole. After all you released it exactly the same with each shot, right? :)

First Precaution.... Notice how this hole pulls the dry flares towards the thumb and pulls the wet flares closer to the thumb as well but not to as great an extent. The wet flare are moving away from the thumb with every rev while the dry flares are closing in towards the thumb with every rev at the back end on the lane to la much greater extent. The caution here is to make sure you don't start out with a layout that already has the wet or dry flares running close to your thumb before you plan to add this weight hole.

Second Precaution... Notice also, around the bottom of the grip where the bowtie is, how wide the flares are before the hole is added. This is the area where your asked to put a piece of tape. Now compare this area as to what happens to it when you add a hole in this area. Notice how both the wet and dry flares close in on this area after drilling this hole. The caution here is to be sure to allow at least an inch away from the existing end wet and dry flares results before the hole gets added.

Tip: From experimentation I have discovered that the maximum increase of both diffs occurs with the largest hole located as close as possible to the intersection (bowtie) between the wet and dry flares at the back/bottom of the ball. That is to say the strongest hole position is located under the bowtie flares. This may or may not be layout specific so more samples need to be tested.

So the maximum diffs appear to be at the intersection but we obviously don't want to run over this hole. I can do this with BluePrint since I'm a professional but don't try this at home kids. :lol:

Thus, according to these findings, the objective is clear... for maximum results we want the position of this hole as close as possible to this location without running over this hole.

Finally a revelation at this point has already surfaced. This has yet to be confirmed with more test cases and hopefully some feed back, but it appears your best starting point with your initial white tape test would be to measure, on the center line of your grip, from the center (where the midline intersects) measure up your grip, past the center line of the bridge 12 to 12.5 inches up and around the back of the grip will get you in the correct starting area to position your tape for your initial test.

I'm aware also that this way to locate the tape is not what is suggested in the video, however it ends up getting you very near to the same spot according to what I can see by using BluePrint transparent ball/core view. It may be one of those whatever works for you deals. :o Remember, if you want to get to the exact opposite side of any bowling ball you simply measure 13.5" from any starting point, in any direction, to get there. :roll:

If this works for you let me know. If this didn't work for you, let me know. With enough feedback we can prove or disprove this theory. I appreciate your feedback.

I hope this helps :!:
More to follow...
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Last edited by Triplicate on February 12th, 2013, 7:19 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Triplicate »

Here is an example for a less than 5" PAP component. If you have any questions do not hesitate to post. The ball details are mentioned above and are in the images.

Please note the location of the MOtion hole in this example is located exactly on the grip center line 12.5 inches straight up. :!: Notice also how the hole lines up perfect, equally spaced, between the wet and dry flares.

I noticed in the ball path images that you gain about 1 degree of entry angle but not a lot of difference at the pocket. This suggests a longer / stronger break point. I went straight to the full 1.25 dia. 4" deep hole to get to the maximum results right away. No incremental steps for me. :o

2.5 oz of top weight before drilling is a very good starting point as is a 3" pin out. Top weight goes from aprox 0 to about 2.5 left on top with the 1.25 hole 4" deep. Again just quick observations.

More to follow...

I hope this helps.
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Last edited by Triplicate on February 12th, 2013, 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the Image on the bottom right.
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Triplicate »

Bahshay wrote:What would be the consequence of drilling the hole when the pin isn't over the ring or to the side of it?
My initial trial and error runs with BluePrint have not show that the suggested pin positions are critical but I don't know the thinking behind these suggestions. I suspect there could be a work around. I've already positioned the pins in different locations, shorter or longer distances and it only affects the initial flares. Make sure you don't start out with a layout that is not already close to running over grip holes. The weight hole moves the flares, particularly the dry flares quit a bit.
Last edited by Triplicate on February 12th, 2013, 10:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the Image on the bottom right.
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Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration

Post by Triplicate »

RevZiLLa wrote:Would this be overkill on a ball with a Diff ratio of over 50%? Would highly polished pieces tend to be a little too skid snap and squirty with this enhancement?

Nice vid, Eric!
I think your on to something. This makes an already very strong ball much stronger indeed. There comes a time when.... ;)
Last edited by Triplicate on February 12th, 2013, 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the Image on the bottom right.
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