Board index » Mo & Friends » General Discussion


Forum rules


Ask Mo Pinel and the bowling industry's best your questions, and get straight answers.
This forum is moderated exclusively by Mo & Friends.



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 587 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 30  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:24 am Post Number: #1 Post
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 2927
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 535
Reputation Power: 6
New and exciting things in the world of ball motion.
Below is a 12 minute video describing the Motion Hole.

(This video is now LIVE!)
Available in 1080p HD.



I'd like to thank Mo for the opportunity to make a video on this new dynamic layout.
I hope everyone gives it a try, especially on a new Radical bowling ball.

_________________
"Its all about the roll."
Press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.
Help us pay our hosting fees, donate today!
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:06 am Post Number: #2 Post
Offline
Guru

Joined: March 31, 2010
Posts: 805
Location: Camp Springs MD
Reputation: 230
Reputation Power: 3
Bring back the "Observation & Reality" thread: Mo has been spending some time in the "Pin nel zone" again- you know, that "twilight zone" area between hard science and the creative investigation of the given phenomena. ;)

First we had "pin out", "pin in" and "pin nel". Now we have "pin up", "pin down" "pin side" and a "pin nel" hole. Father time is not slowing down Mo nor the other "mad scientist" Carmen Salvino, the "spook" himself. No nursing home for these "old farts" :lol: Just think, they work for the same company now. Lets put them a room together and watch "the creative smarts" runneth over.

_________________
-Gary Parsons
If one does not know one's product, one can not manage nor promote the product one does not know.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:06 pm Post Number: #3 Post
Offline
Trusted Source
User avatar

Joined: August 13, 2009
Posts: 662
Location: Madison, WI
Reputation: 61
Reputation Power: 1
Thanks for doinjg this Eric! Rory Holland did this and tried to explain it to me. Your video helped explained it much better.

Scott


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:13 pm Post Number: #4 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: October 22, 2010
Posts: 364
Location: Cleveland, OH
Reputation: 28
Reputation Power: 1
What would be the consequence of drilling the hole when the pin isn't over the ring or to the side of it?

_________________
PAP- 4 1/8 over, 3/4 up
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 375
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:54 pm Post Number: #5 Post
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: September 1, 2010
Posts: 1387
Location: Canada
Reputation: 133
Reputation Power: 2
Thanks to everyone for sharing and all the hard work that went into this.

Was this inspired in part by the Voodoo layout weight hole also around the back of the ball?

I'm going to simulate this for both the less than 5" PAP and greater than 5". I have no idea where this will lead but it should be a fun exercise. I have all the details of my Voodoo layout to compare this with as well.

I'm going to use the exact layout in the video for the less than 5" PAP example and I'll use my specs for the over 5" PAP simulation. Stay tuned.

Any thoughts before I get into this?

_________________
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (1), 11 in a row (15)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (8)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the Image on the bottom right.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:31 pm Post Number: #6 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: May 8, 2011
Posts: 288
Location: Atkinson Il
Reputation: 13
Reputation Power: 1
Triplicate wrote:
Thanks to everyone for sharing and all the hard work that went into this.

Was this inspired in part by the Voodoo layout weight hole also around the back of the ball?

I'm going to simulate this for both the less than 5" PAP and greater than 5". I have no idea where this will lead but it should be a fun exercise. I have all the details of my Voodoo layout to compare this with as well.

I'm going to use the exact layout in the video for the less than 5" PAP example and I'll use my specs for the over 5" PAP simulation. Stay tuned.

Any thoughts before I get into this?


That was my first thought was the Voodoo layout. Im curious to see this "mechanical advantage" in your simulation.

_________________
pap: 4 5/8" over -5/8" up
speed: 17-18mph off hand
rev rate: 320
axis rotation: 55*
axis tilt: 11-13*

years bowling: 6
league average: 213
high game: 300
high series: 792


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:24 pm Post Number: #7 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: April 8, 2012
Posts: 106
Reputation: 2
Reputation Power: 1
Awesome! Triplicate, please collect data on entry angle and rolling distance from Blueprint. Also it would be great if you can test this on a speed dominate bowler stats, say 18 MPH and 200 rpm with average rotations and tilt.

Also see what happens if you move that hole around a couple of inches up-down or right-left.

Does anyone have an explanation on why the different distances for asym or sym?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:31 pm Post Number: #8 Post
Offline
Pro Shop

Joined: March 10, 2011
Posts: 139
Reputation: 5
Reputation Power: 1
is there any way we can get a comparisson between a p4 aggressive, and MOtion hole?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:57 pm Post Number: #9 Post
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: September 1, 2010
Posts: 1387
Location: Canada
Reputation: 133
Reputation Power: 2
These are already some good thoughts so keep this coming. I'll hold off doing this for a while to collect more of these kind of comments. By doing so I can come up with meeting most of the requests in one session.

_________________
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (1), 11 in a row (15)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (8)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the Image on the bottom right.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:19 pm Post Number: #10 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: February 8, 2010
Posts: 92
Location: 48912
Reputation: 25
Reputation Power: 1
xclusix wrote:

Does anyone have an explanation on why the different distances for asym or sym?


My guess is it has to do with the PSA of the ball before drilling the balance hole. The PSA on a symmetric ball isn't as locked in as it is on a strong asymmetric core, thus the 1" shift when laying out one versus the other.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:12 am Post Number: #11 Post
Offline
Trusted Source
User avatar

Joined: January 19, 2010
Posts: 532
Location: Washington, WV
Reputation: 136
Reputation Power: 2
Triplicate wrote:

Was this inspired in part by the Voodoo layout weight hole also around the back of the ball?



Not in the slightest!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:46 am Post Number: #12 Post
Offline
Trusted Source
User avatar

Joined: January 19, 2010
Posts: 532
Location: Washington, WV
Reputation: 136
Reputation Power: 2
J_Mac wrote:
xclusix wrote:

Does anyone have an explanation on why the different distances for asym or sym?


My guess is it has to do with the PSA of the ball before drilling the balance hole. The PSA on a symmetric ball isn't as locked in as it is on a strong asymmetric core, thus the 1" shift when laying out one versus the other.



The different distances are used because of differences in bowtie locations and track flares between symms and asymms. Results from our core shape studies over the past year or so led us to the idea of using the MOtion Hole technique. We have performed extensive CAD modeling to study the effects on mass properties before applying the technique in person and studying the real world situation with several bowlers. Megamav's video is the first to show the effects of the MOtion Hole. I think it clearly showed the potential of increased ball motion and I thank him for his work, especially on calculating spin times.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:34 am Post Number: #13 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: December 28, 2010
Posts: 316
Location: Canton, Ohio
Reputation: 12
Reputation Power: 1
For a Asym ball would u draw the line from the marked PSA on the ball or where it spins up on the determinator?

_________________
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 8-1-12 **
Right Hand
PAP 4 -> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 15.7 MONITOR
RPM 375 - 400
http://WWW.VisionaryBowling.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRW5onpRTPY


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:40 am Post Number: #14 Post
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 2927
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 535
Reputation Power: 6
ICURNVS wrote:
For a Asym ball would u draw the line from the marked PSA on the ball or where it spins up on the determinator?


If you have a determinator, use the PSA from that.
Otherwise, if you dont have a determinator, you'll eventually figure out the hard way that you'll have to move the tape one way or another because the tape keeps thumping on the backend.

In theory the PSA marked should be close, but I've seen some rare ones off by an inch or more.

_________________
"Its all about the roll."
Press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.
Help us pay our hosting fees, donate today!
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:50 am Post Number: #15 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: December 28, 2010
Posts: 316
Location: Canton, Ohio
Reputation: 12
Reputation Power: 1
on under 5" PAP you wanted the pin above the ring finger, just looking at what I have laying around would this layout work?

or is the pin too high.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk27 ... photo1.jpg

_________________
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 8-1-12 **
Right Hand
PAP 4 -> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 15.7 MONITOR
RPM 375 - 400
http://WWW.VisionaryBowling.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRW5onpRTPY


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:58 am Post Number: #16 Post
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 2927
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 535
Reputation Power: 6
ICURNVS wrote:
on under 5" PAP you wanted the pin above the ring finger, just looking at what I have laying around would this layout work?

or is the pin too high.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk27 ... photo1.jpg


Draw the line from the Thumb hole to the pin, then extend the line far around the ball.
Measure 10" from the Pin on that line and tape it.
Throw it, then trace the flare and find out.

I have exactly one ball experience with this balance hole location.
Find out, the worst thing that happens is, you waste a piece of tape.

_________________
"Its all about the roll."
Press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.
Help us pay our hosting fees, donate today!
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:07 am Post Number: #17 Post
Offline
Pro Shop
User avatar

Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 232
Location: Richmond, VA
Reputation: 11
Reputation Power: 1
Would this be overkill on a ball with a Diff ratio of over 50%? Would highly polished pieces tend to be a little too skid snap and squirty with this enhancement?

Nice vid, Eric!

_________________
=======================================================
RevZ


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:41 am Post Number: #18 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 88
Location: Nicholasville, KY
Reputation: 7
Reputation Power: 1
:D


Good work Eric :!:

Thanks to Mo, MathIsTruth and everyone else involved. :!: :!: :!:


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:17 am Post Number: #19 Post
Offline
BCU Graduate Layouts
User avatar

Joined: June 5, 2010
Posts: 509
Reputation: 34
Reputation Power: 1
Great video. Can't wait to try this out!!

_________________
17 MPH @ arrows
300 RPM
AR 50-55
AT 13
PAP 5 1/4" x 1/4"


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:32 am Post Number: #20 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 187
Location: Pasadena,Md
Reputation: 38
Reputation Power: 1
I have tried the MOtion hole on 3 balls(PM,DestroyR,and Mightmare)I had the pleasure about two months ago to try this out with Mo.It was very informative to watch Mo collect his data on the change and effect of adding the hole.
We drilled a PM and then went and found my strike line,marked the flare rings and added a MOtion hole.The next ball was brooklyn.I had to make a 6 and 2 move left.
The DestroyR and Nightmare I have not been able to use successfully due to the fact I am not that consistent playing that far left yet.They are too much ball for a house shot.Looking forward to seeing the reaction on a sport shot this summer.
The hole definetely increases the reaction off the dry.
I would definetely recommend every speed dominate bowler to try this hole.I have around 250 revs with a ball speed of 18-19 mph off my hand and 26* of tilt.
The PM has become the first ball out of my bag.My other PM with a p4 is still too weak for me except on a broke down shot.
Nice video Eric.


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 587 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 30  Next

Board index » Mo & Friends » General Discussion


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: