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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:52 pm Post Number: #41 Post
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From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4735

Your discussion of the movement explains why the "flare safe" zone, that I've recommended for two decades, goes from pin to PAP distances of 3/4" to 6 1/4". After seeing that the low RG axis can move as much as .6", I'm now going to reduce the flare safe pin to PAP distances to 3/4" to 6". I use 5 3/4" as my max. pin to PAP distance on the balls I personally layout. Balance holes near the high RG axis can be,and are, extremely effective, but balance hole near the intermediate, or low, RG axis can be dangerous because of the movement they can cause in ALL of the primary axis. I've do have some ancient engineering training, but have had to use empirical research to develop most of the techniques that I recommend and teach. Thanks for confirming that I didn't waste my time.

On a symmetrical ball drilled without a balance hole, the PSA (high RG) axis ends up very near the thumb. That puts the PAP near the intermediate RG axis on a vast majority of bowlers. Putting a balance hole in the PAP, which is near the int. RG axis, raises the RG of the int. RG axis. That decreases the int. diff., which makes the ball more symmetrical. That's what blueprint's excellent attachment shows. This explanation is for those who have math phobia.


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:39 pm Post Number: #42 Post
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From topic:http://forum.bowlingchat.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4960
When asked about which CLT to use when you are between lines A and B:

"It depends on your tilt. If you're low tilt, use A. If you're medium to large tilt, use B."

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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:45 pm Post Number: #43 Post
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From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4977

The problem is simple!!!!!! This is a good time to address the cause, since you've asked. GOOD BALL REACTION OCCURS WHEN A BALL IS ROLLED IN ONE DIRECTION AND ROTATED IN ANOTHER! THE ANGLE BETWEEN THE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL AND THE DIRECTION OF ROTATION IS MEASURED IN TERMS OF AXIS TILT AND AXIS ROTATION! NOT ENOUGH OF EITHER AND THERE'S NOT ENOUGH BALL REACTION! As the ball travels down the lane the forces of gravity and friction reduces those angles. As those angles are reduced, the ball tracks higher. When it tracks too high, it hits holes.


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:19 pm Post Number: #44 Post
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Great info John P.

Just printed it - so I re read it more closely and at will.

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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:31 pm Post Number: #45 Post
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From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5099

Q. When laying out balls for specific conditions (long/heavy/short/dry) is it best to adjust ratios or sums (or a combination of both)? What range (in terms of ratio changes or sums) are generally useful, and how bowler specific is this? I guess I'm trying to get a handle on how far from the benchmark ratios/sums it is safe to venture when laying out balls for specific conditions.

A. You adjust the sum of the angles to move the transitions on the lane. You adjust the ratio to change the shape of the ball motion. You adjust the pin to PAP distance to mainly control the flare, which strongly adjusts the distance of the first transition.


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:47 pm Post Number: #46 Post
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Taken from context: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=431

For Asymmetrical balls:

"For bowlers that come up the back, I prefer to use pin to PAP distances of 3" to 5". Closer to 3", if I want them to cover boards. Closer to 5", if i want them to play parallel.

For bowlers who get around the ball, I prefer to use pin to PAP distances of 4" to 6". Closer to 4", if I want them to cover boards. Closer to 6", if i want them to play parallel."


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:04 pm Post Number: #47 Post
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from viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5119

Your very accurate! You must use balance holes to get true smaller drilling angles in symmetrical balls. What you've proved is that symmetricals transition very similar unless you use a balance hole. Use balance holes on the VAL below the midline to decrease the drilling angle. Use balance holes on the Gradient Line to alter the diffs. of the drilled ball to change the intensity of the ball reaction.]


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:12 pm Post Number: #48 Post
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taken from viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5167

The USBC has changed its' rules. Balls with intermediate diffs. of .010", or higher, must now mark the PSA. They got this one right. Most asyms with "super" covers are most versatile with intermediates diffs of .012" to .024". Balls without "super" covers can use higher intermediate diffs. effectively. I drill all ball with intermediate diffs. of < .009" as symmetricals because drilling them pulls the PSA to the thumb hole.


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:47 pm Post Number: #49 Post
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From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5178

Q. Is it possible to lay out a ball to lower or raise the track of a bowler?

A. Not consistently, or effectively. Changing the track is related to changing the release, not the layout. Sorry!


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:56 pm Post Number: #50 Post
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From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5202

Drilled asyms maintain their PSAs pretty well. Symmetrical balls end up with the PSA near the thumb, no matter where the cg is. Drilling the balance hole on the Gradient Line changes the intensity of the ball reaction on all balls. Balance holes on the VAL, below the midline, is the only way to reduce the drilling angle on a symmetrical ball.


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 pm Post Number: #51 Post
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From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5222

Densities, my man. Inner cores average 2.6 g/cc, outer cores average 0.9 g/cc, coverstock is 1.10 g/cc.


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:36 pm Post Number: #52 Post
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taken from viewtopic.php?f=15&t=867&start=40 (see #52)

With 20* of tilt, I like pin to PAP distances of 4 1/4" to 5 3/4" on asymmetrical balls and 2" to 3 1/4" on symmetrical balls. I like angle ratios of .7:1 to 1.5:1.


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:39 pm Post Number: #53 Post
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For balance holes close to the thumb hole: The pitch of the balance hole plus the distance that the center of the hole is from the edge of the thumb assembly must equal 2 1/2" plus whatever lateral pitch toward the balance hole the thumb hole has. Voila!


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:18 am Post Number: #54 Post
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Thanks, elgavachon, I thought the one about balance hole distance from the thumb hole was already in here, but I double checked and it wasn't. -- JohnP


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:37 am Post Number: #55 Post
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from topic: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1889&start=20

Put a strip of white tape on the ball from the ring finger hole to the PAP. Make a video at approach height from behind the bowler on the trajectory line. Using a 30 fps video camera, play the tape on a device with a frame by frame clicker. Advance the tape 'til the first frame after the fingers clear the ball. Click it 10 frames. Count the number of hours eclipsed by the tape (using the tape as an hour hand on a clock). Multiply that number by 15 and that's the rev rate at release.


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:03 pm Post Number: #56 Post
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from: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5282&p=42521#p42521
RE: Balance Hole Questions

Mo Pinel wrote:
JohnP wrote:
P1 is the weakest gradient line balance hole. What happens to reaction strength when you move away from P1 either up the VAL or up and toward the grip centerline? How far can you go up the VAL and still be flare safe? This would be used if the fingers are already deep and the ball is still out of finger weight spec or I need to remove both finger and side weight, unless the reaction actually strengthens. -- JohnP


The actual position to put the balance hole to decrease flare the most is the pin (low RG axis), but that's not always flare safe and may intersect a finger hole. P1 in the new Gradient Line System is the closest to reducing the flare the most and being flare safe almost all the time, and nor hitting a finger hole. Being flare safe is critical.


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:19 pm Post Number: #57 Post
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from topic
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5274&p=43358#p43358
Balance hole effect 70 x 3 5/8 x 15

Remember the guidelines for Dual Angle Layouts. 20* is the recommended minimum VAL angle. What do you think? A P1 hole will increase the length of the hook zone. Start small and go bigger 'til you get what you want.

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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:26 pm Post Number: #58 Post
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From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5119

As a rule of thumb the PSA on a drilled symmetrical ball without a balance hole will be 6 3/4" from the pin approximately 1/2" negative of the centerline. The balance hole will pull the PSA towards it.


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:55 am Post Number: #59 Post
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Taken from viewtopic.php?t=5485 (see #8)

Timing is related to three things:

1) Grip pressure
2) The length of the hinge
3) The half period of the pendulum

"That's all Folks!"


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 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:27 pm Post Number: #60 Post
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Dealing with a low axis tilt player. Taken from:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5548

Finger pitches are designed to increase your tilt. If you're not feeling the ring finger, the fit is doing the job. Ring finger dominant players are usually low tilt players. I need to see the original thread to comment on the thumb pitch because of the adjustments I made.

Also, from viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5542:

Hitting the ball with the ring finger will DECREASE tilt, not increase it.


Last edited by JohnP on Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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