Mo Says

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JohnP
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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » January 30th, 2012, 5:52 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4735" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your discussion of the movement explains why the "flare safe" zone, that I've recommended for two decades, goes from pin to PAP distances of 3/4" to 6 1/4". After seeing that the low RG axis can move as much as .6", I'm now going to reduce the flare safe pin to PAP distances to 3/4" to 6". I use 5 3/4" as my max. pin to PAP distance on the balls I personally layout. Balance holes near the high RG axis can be,and are, extremely effective, but balance hole near the intermediate, or low, RG axis can be dangerous because of the movement they can cause in ALL of the primary axis. I've do have some ancient engineering training, but have had to use empirical research to develop most of the techniques that I recommend and teach. Thanks for confirming that I didn't waste my time.

On a symmetrical ball drilled without a balance hole, the PSA (high RG) axis ends up very near the thumb. That puts the PAP near the intermediate RG axis on a vast majority of bowlers. Putting a balance hole in the PAP, which is near the int. RG axis, raises the RG of the int. RG axis. That decreases the int. diff., which makes the ball more symmetrical. That's what blueprint's excellent attachment shows. This explanation is for those who have math phobia.

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Dustin
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Re: Mo Says

Post by Dustin » February 2nd, 2012, 8:39 pm

From topic:viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4960
When asked about which CLT to use when you are between lines A and B:

"It depends on your tilt. If you're low tilt, use A. If you're medium to large tilt, use B."
* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson

JohnP
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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » February 2nd, 2012, 11:45 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4977" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The problem is simple!!!!!! This is a good time to address the cause, since you've asked. GOOD BALL REACTION OCCURS WHEN A BALL IS ROLLED IN ONE DIRECTION AND ROTATED IN ANOTHER! THE ANGLE BETWEEN THE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL AND THE DIRECTION OF ROTATION IS MEASURED IN TERMS OF AXIS TILT AND AXIS ROTATION! NOT ENOUGH OF EITHER AND THERE'S NOT ENOUGH BALL REACTION! As the ball travels down the lane the forces of gravity and friction reduces those angles. As those angles are reduced, the ball tracks higher. When it tracks too high, it hits holes.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by Dax » February 3rd, 2012, 4:19 pm

Great info John P.

Just printed it - so I re read it more closely and at will.
"You see only what you look for; you recognize only what you know"

There are many worlds out there. Some of them can be accessed through reading. Encourage reading - T.A. Sankar

http://www.tasankar.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JohnP
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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » February 8th, 2012, 11:31 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5099" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Q. When laying out balls for specific conditions (long/heavy/short/dry) is it best to adjust ratios or sums (or a combination of both)? What range (in terms of ratio changes or sums) are generally useful, and how bowler specific is this? I guess I'm trying to get a handle on how far from the benchmark ratios/sums it is safe to venture when laying out balls for specific conditions.

A. You adjust the sum of the angles to move the transitions on the lane. You adjust the ratio to change the shape of the ball motion. You adjust the pin to PAP distance to mainly control the flare, which strongly adjusts the distance of the first transition.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » February 14th, 2012, 7:47 pm

Taken from context: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=431" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For Asymmetrical balls:

"For bowlers that come up the back, I prefer to use pin to PAP distances of 3" to 5". Closer to 3", if I want them to cover boards. Closer to 5", if i want them to play parallel.

For bowlers who get around the ball, I prefer to use pin to PAP distances of 4" to 6". Closer to 4", if I want them to cover boards. Closer to 6", if i want them to play parallel."

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » February 15th, 2012, 8:04 pm

from viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5119" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your very accurate! You must use balance holes to get true smaller drilling angles in symmetrical balls. What you've proved is that symmetricals transition very similar unless you use a balance hole. Use balance holes on the VAL below the midline to decrease the drilling angle. Use balance holes on the Gradient Line to alter the diffs. of the drilled ball to change the intensity of the ball reaction.]

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » February 15th, 2012, 8:12 pm

taken from viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5167" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The USBC has changed its' rules. Balls with intermediate diffs. of .010", or higher, must now mark the PSA. They got this one right. Most asyms with "super" covers are most versatile with intermediates diffs of .012" to .024". Balls without "super" covers can use higher intermediate diffs. effectively. I drill all ball with intermediate diffs. of < .009" as symmetricals because drilling them pulls the PSA to the thumb hole.

JohnP
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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » February 16th, 2012, 9:47 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5178" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Q. Is it possible to lay out a ball to lower or raise the track of a bowler?

A. Not consistently, or effectively. Changing the track is related to changing the release, not the layout. Sorry!

JohnP
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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » February 19th, 2012, 9:56 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5202" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Drilled asyms maintain their PSAs pretty well. Symmetrical balls end up with the PSA near the thumb, no matter where the cg is. Drilling the balance hole on the Gradient Line changes the intensity of the ball reaction on all balls. Balance holes on the VAL, below the midline, is the only way to reduce the drilling angle on a symmetrical ball.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » February 23rd, 2012, 4:42 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5222" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Densities, my man. Inner cores average 2.6 g/cc, outer cores average 0.9 g/cc, coverstock is 1.10 g/cc.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » February 28th, 2012, 9:36 pm

taken from viewtopic.php?f=15&t=867&start=40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see #52)

With 20* of tilt, I like pin to PAP distances of 4 1/4" to 5 3/4" on asymmetrical balls and 2" to 3 1/4" on symmetrical balls. I like angle ratios of .7:1 to 1.5:1.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » February 28th, 2012, 9:39 pm

For balance holes close to the thumb hole: The pitch of the balance hole plus the distance that the center of the hole is from the edge of the thumb assembly must equal 2 1/2" plus whatever lateral pitch toward the balance hole the thumb hole has. Voila!

JohnP
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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » February 29th, 2012, 9:18 am

Thanks, elgavachon, I thought the one about balance hole distance from the thumb hole was already in here, but I double checked and it wasn't. -- JohnP

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » March 3rd, 2012, 2:37 am

from topic: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1889&start=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Put a strip of white tape on the ball from the ring finger hole to the PAP. Make a video at approach height from behind the bowler on the trajectory line. Using a 30 fps video camera, play the tape on a device with a frame by frame clicker. Advance the tape 'til the first frame after the fingers clear the ball. Click it 10 frames. Count the number of hours eclipsed by the tape (using the tape as an hour hand on a clock). Multiply that number by 15 and that's the rev rate at release.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by jpj6780 » March 5th, 2012, 4:03 pm

from: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5282&p=42521#p42521" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
RE: Balance Hole Questions
Mo Pinel wrote: The actual position to put the balance hole to decrease flare the most is the pin (low RG axis), but that's not always flare safe and may intersect a finger hole. P1 in the new Gradient Line System is the closest to reducing the flare the most and being flare safe almost all the time, and nor hitting a finger hole. Being flare safe is critical.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by EricHartwell » March 17th, 2012, 6:19 pm

from topic
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5274&p=43358#p43358" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Balance hole effect 70 x 3 5/8 x 15

Remember the guidelines for Dual Angle Layouts. 20* is the recommended minimum VAL angle. What do you think? A P1 hole will increase the length of the hook zone. Start small and go bigger 'til you get what you want.
Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » March 17th, 2012, 10:26 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5119" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As a rule of thumb the PSA on a drilled symmetrical ball without a balance hole will be 6 3/4" from the pin approximately 1/2" negative of the centerline. The balance hole will pull the PSA towards it.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » March 26th, 2012, 4:55 am

Taken from viewtopic.php?t=5485" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see #8)

Timing is related to three things:

1) Grip pressure
2) The length of the hinge
3) The half period of the pendulum

"That's all Folks!"

JohnP
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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » April 3rd, 2012, 4:27 pm

Dealing with a low axis tilt player. Taken from:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5548" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Finger pitches are designed to increase your tilt. If you're not feeling the ring finger, the fit is doing the job. Ring finger dominant players are usually low tilt players. I need to see the original thread to comment on the thumb pitch because of the adjustments I made.

Also, from viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5542" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;:

Hitting the ball with the ring finger will DECREASE tilt, not increase it.
Last edited by JohnP on April 5th, 2012, 4:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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