Mo Says

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elgavachon
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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » October 18th, 2014, 3:35 am

Taken from: viewtopic.php?t=3571" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The vertical coordinate has nothing to do with ball motion. It's an anomaly. The longer the thumb stays in the ball, the more the vertical coordinate is up. In full rollers, in which the thumb stays in the ball the longest, the vertical coordinate is usually 2+" up.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » October 31st, 2014, 5:29 pm

taken from: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10266" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hook/Set reaction is ball motion with a medium skid phase, a short hook zone and a longer roll zone.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » November 4th, 2014, 5:12 pm

MOtion hole with no thumb & new rules: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10306" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Follow the instructions and start with the center of the grip as the center of the inserts. Measure from there through the pin. Measure 10" on that line. Make sure the center of the MOtion Hole is at least 1 1/4" for the 1st oil ring on the bottom of the ball. Start small. There can be NO thumb hole in the ball if you use a balance hole under the revised rules.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » November 9th, 2014, 4:26 pm

taken from: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10315" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see #19)

Plugging and re-drilling a ball is specific to each event. The amount of change is related to which part of the ball (inner core, outer core, or shell) the holes hit. The changes are almost always minimal.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » December 23rd, 2014, 7:24 pm

Taken from: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10425" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see #17)

The first transition (skid to hook) is related to flare (pin to PAP distance) and the drilling angle.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » January 18th, 2015, 1:37 am

From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1352&p=11036&hilit=rico#p11036" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regarding a dual angle layout to match the reaction from the Rico layout:

Rico's are vague depending on PAPs, but my suggestion is 15 / 5 / 50 with a P4 hole for symmetricals. I wouldn't do it on an asym. because regular "Dual Angle" layouts are so precise and accurate for asyms.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » March 5th, 2015, 9:36 pm

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1118&hilit=CLT&start=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This link takes you to a thread where Mo discusses the use of the fan chart in the fitting procedure and compares it to the Center Line Transfer (CLT) process. -- JohnP

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » April 9th, 2015, 7:18 pm

Taken from: posting.php?mode=quote&f=15&p=84937" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see #20)

It compares a sym. vs. an asym., both drilled 3 3/4" by 30*. The change in core angle in the asym. is much greater than the change in core angle of the sym. This means that the core of the asym. lays down more and faster than the core of the sym. contributing to the sharper, quicker revving breakpoint of the asym. ball.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » April 29th, 2015, 10:11 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10998" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regarding: Layout for a two handed, no-thumb bowler

In regards to this remark : Also the pro shop just wants to put the cg center and just below fingers and then just set the pin to pap without drilling a thumb. Is this an ok method or is it very imprecise?

That's a good method. I just recommend pin to PAP distances between 4 1/2" and 5 1/4". Closer to 4 1/2" to get the ball to corner and closer to 5 1/4" for smoother roll.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » May 6th, 2015, 6:17 pm

about Motion hole with fingers only (no thumb layout) from post: posting.php?mode=quote&f=13&p=85581" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I haven't investigated that yet. The MOtion Hole ball reaction results from the combined effect of the thumb hole and the MOtion Hole. So, I'm not sure.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by gunso » May 7th, 2015, 12:22 pm

elgavachon wrote:about Motion hole with fingers only (no thumb layout) from post: posting.php?mode=quote&f=13&p=85581" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I haven't investigated that yet. The MOtion Hole ball reaction results from the combined effect of the thumb hole and the MOtion Hole. So, I'm not sure.
elgavachon wrote:MOtion hole with no thumb & new rules: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10306" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Follow the instructions and start with the center of the grip as the center of the inserts. Measure from there through the pin. Measure 10" on that line. Make sure the center of the MOtion Hole is at least 1 1/4" for the 1st oil ring on the bottom of the ball. Start small. There can be NO thumb hole in the ball if you use a balance hole under the revised rules.

Only one of those can be true.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » May 7th, 2015, 11:00 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11020" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Time to understand the effect of both cores and covers on the ball gooing down the lane. It's a sliding scale. The closer to the foul line the ball is, the more the coverstock (including surface) dominates. The closer to the ball going off the pin deck, the more the core dominates. In the pin deck (going thru the pins), the cover is mostly insignificant. In the heads (the front of the lane), the core is mostly insignificant. As the ball travels down the lane the coverstock becomes less important and the core becomes more important. Hitting the pocket is mostly related to to the coverstock, but pin carry is mostly related to ball dynamics (core).

That ought to start something!

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » May 8th, 2015, 4:31 pm

Taken from: viewtopic.php?f=15&p=85622#p85622" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see #14)


There are only 2 ways to get the ball to flare the wrong way:

1) Please the pin (low RG axis),past the VAL.
2) Place the low RG axis of the drilled ball (post drilling low RG axis) more than 6 3/4" from the bowler's PAP. Because of the movement of the low RG axis after drilling, I use 5 3/4" pin to PAP as max.

Drilling high track bowlers with pin to PAP distance > 4 3/4" can pull the track up on the holes, but won't reverse the flare until you exceed 5 3/4".

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » May 12th, 2015, 9:11 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11030" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Response to a no-thumber regarding balance hole placement and PSA location for symmetrical balls, and moving the track away from the finger holes.

Try 1/2 F in MF and drill fingers 3 1/2" deep to help stabilize PSA. We did some No Thumb studies. The PSA on the Yeti should be 6 3/4" from the pin about 2" left of centerline.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by gunso » May 13th, 2015, 11:44 am

JohnP wrote:From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11030" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Response to a no-thumber regarding balance hole placement and PSA location for symmetrical balls, and moving the track away from the finger holes.

Try 1/2 F in MF and drill fingers 3 1/2" deep to help stabilize PSA. We did some No Thumb studies. The PSA on the Yeti should be 6 3/4" from the pin about 2" left of centerline.
I think this should prequel the quote from the same topic.

"Try these lateral pitches to get the ball off the MF hole:
MF - 3/8 L
RF - 1/4 R

Also try 0 F/Rev in RF. Let us know the effect."

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » June 15th, 2015, 6:59 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11116&view=unread#unread" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regarding: Balance holes for no-thumb bowlers

Balance hole size and location is the most critcal factor to ball motion on a symmetrical ball because it moves the PSA of the drilled ball around so much. On no thumb drillings, the balance hole can cause wild swings in the PSA location because the drilling holes remove so little mass from the ball. I recommend drilling the finger holes at least 3" deep on no thumb balls to help stabilize PSA movements when adding a balance hole. I've been tracking the movement of the PSA on no thumb balls with a DeTerminator to learn more about the PSA movement. No solid determinations, yet. My 13 year old son, Levi, is a no thumb bowler because I wouldn't let him use his thumb when he started. So I get plenty of practice on these layouts.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » June 15th, 2015, 9:54 pm

Taken from: viewtopic.php?t=845" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see #9)

"Interchangeable thumbs are an important part of ball drilling today. We included demos on both the Vise IT and the Turbo Switch Grip in our advanced class this year. Both systems work well when installed properly and DO NOT negatively affect ball dynamics. USBC Equip. and Specs. did a study to prove that they don't negatively affect ball dynamics."

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » July 26th, 2015, 3:45 pm

Taken from: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11215" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let's do some confirming of the measurements. Put a piece of tape on your measured PAP and see if the ball rotates about that PAP as it hits the lane. You'll have to have someone watch it as the tape will move as the ball flares. Another way to confirm the PAP is to find the center of the ball track and measure 13 1/2" from that in any direction to find the PAP. I use that method when an Armadillo is not available.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by EricHartwell » August 12th, 2015, 12:59 am

Taken from viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11240&p=87311#p87311" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mo Pinel wrote:
Please follow the suggestion! This ball has the rotational inertia to handle that layout. I know the designer. As far as Storm recommends, which they are entitled to, this is NOT a Storm ball.

The pin position, not the PSA, will keep the flares off the thumb.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
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Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Mo Says

Post by EricHartwell » August 12th, 2015, 1:15 am

Taken from viewtopic.php?f=13&p=87312#p87312" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So what happens when a ball burns up?
Mo Pinel wrote:
A ball "burns up" when it enters the roll phase too soon. When the axis rotation and the axis tilt are equal (the 2nd transition), the ball will no longer hook. If the ball still has a little axis rotation and tilt (which are then equal), it will still hit. The ball will only stop hitting when both the axis rotation and tilt equal zero (true "roll out").
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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