Mo Says

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elgavachon
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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » January 7th, 2014, 6:57 pm

Question about Double Thumb layouts & high tilts. Taken from: viewtopic.php?t=544" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On players with that high a tilt, I put the PSA 1 1/2" right of the right edge of the thumb (for right handers) and figure out the drilling angle. The 4" pin to PAP distance and the 30* VAL angle don't change. This puts the balance hole into the PSA and decreases the drilling angle to compensate for the added tilt.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » January 15th, 2014, 7:24 pm

High rev bowler will hit balance holes. taken from: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As a rev dominant player, I can understand it happening. I've seen it many times. Just draw the gradient line on the ball and mark the P3 and P2 positions. Make a decision as to what gradient line position you want to use. Now mark that position on the gradient line. Draw a line through that point perpendicular to the gradient line. Place the hole on that line at a distance closer to the grip that you feel will allow for the increased flare (not hitting the hole). Start with a small hole and increase the size, if you'd like, monitoring the flare.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » January 20th, 2014, 6:10 am

Taken from viewtopic.php?t=793" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see #6)

To get an angular backend on dry lanes, you want a large drilling angle and a small VAL angle with reduced flare. Precisely, 75 to 90* drilling angle with a 20 to 30* VAL angle. Use a pin to PAP distance of 1 3/4" to 2 1/2" on asyms. depending on your style; 4 1/2" to 5 1/2" pin to PAP distance for syms., again, depending on your style.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » January 20th, 2014, 6:17 am

viewtopic.php?t=9238" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see #3)

Core density, inner core volume and especially core shape have everything to do with how drillings and balance holes affect ball motion.

CORE SHAPE DETERMINES BALL MOTION!!!!!! An axiom of Radical Ball Technologies!

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » January 25th, 2014, 5:28 pm

Taken from: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9265" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As the developer of Radical's "finger scoop" and being listed on the US Patent application as the inventor, I guess it's appropriate for me to comment.

The finger scoop was developed to increase the versatility of drilled balls. If one of these balls is drilled with the pin above the fingers, the fingers holes will only minimally penetrate the core, allowing the core to maintain it's undrilled core height. This produces a sharper, shorter breakpoint for the drilled ball. If one of these balls is drilled with the pin below the fingers, the fingers holes will substantially penetrate the core, reducing the height of the core compared to the undrilled ball. That results in a ball with a smoother, longer breakpoint.

That should sum it up!

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » February 24th, 2014, 2:13 am

From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9426" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mo's response to a question about where a 24* axis tilt track would be located compared to a 14* axis tilt track.

The real answer is that it could be almost anywhere. It's only the distance across the track on the surface of the ball that really matters.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » February 24th, 2014, 10:46 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9406&view=unread#unread" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note: I've made an exception with this quote, it's from Math is Truth instead of Mo, and responds to a question about the PBA Plastic Ball Layout. -- JohnP

You want to use the balance hole to push the Low RG axis down so it ends up closer to 3 3/8" from the PAP. Use the smallest balance hole to make it statically legal. Larger balance holes will cut the diffs! I spent hours studying the changes in principal axes and diffs when Mo started developing this technique. Exciting times watching this layout win that Plastic Ball tournament!!

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » March 6th, 2014, 6:29 pm

Taken from: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9491" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


An intermediate diff. on the undrilled ball of <.010" makes the ball a symmetrical ball because when you drill it, the PSA of the drilled ball will move to the area of the thumb hole until a balance hole is added.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » March 14th, 2014, 3:32 pm

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9538" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A 90* drilling angle will ALWAYS put the PSA 6 3/4" from the PAP.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » April 11th, 2014, 8:43 am

From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9567&view=unread#unread" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On symmetrical balls without a balance hole, use the PAP as P1.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » May 29th, 2014, 10:53 pm

About "Rico Layout": viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9822" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"It uses the weakest pin placement with a strong balance hole. Seems contradictory to me. Take it away, then give it back. Why bother? The only time I've seen it work well is on stone wall overblocks by rev dominant players."

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » June 2nd, 2014, 9:03 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9807" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regarding use of low differential balls for bowlers with low axis tilt.

I hadn't seen that, but here are some guidelines for low tilt bowlers (3*-11*). First of all low diff. balls, as long as the total diff. >10*, should help the breakpoint to get down the lane with more continuation. Always use pin to PAP distances < 5" for low tilt bowlers. Longer pin to PAP distances can cause the ball to pull the track up on the holes. Use angle sums > 90* with the drilling angle at least 1.5 time the VAL angle. Hope that helps.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » June 10th, 2014, 4:41 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9852&view=unread#unread" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The pin placement on a full roller layout is designed so the ball doesn't flare over thew holes. Every company has their own way. When we did the aggressive full roller layouts, we used CAD program to analyze the drilled balls to maximize the diffs. of the drilled ball. That's accurate. There are two, one for asyms. and one for syms. Those layouts are in the Wiki. I guarantee the accuracy of our suggested layouts. They are entitled to their positions. That the jist of it.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » July 22nd, 2014, 6:16 pm

from: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9960" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With no thumbers I use a pin location just above the fingers as a 1st drill. Using pins out to the right can sometimes pull the track up onto the finger holes. Safety first, and I can still use a balance hole to influence the reaction if there is no thumbhole drilled.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » July 29th, 2014, 4:37 pm

Taken from Motion hole topic (v.s. Double thumb question see #589):
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7374&start=580" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The answer is the laws of Physics dictate motion. Don't get hung up on the #s only. The difference between the two layouts is the position of the balance hole. The MOtion hole definitely increases the gyroscopic inertia of the ball. The DT puts all the holes on one side of the ball and blows up both the diffs. to the max. It's very complex physics.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » July 29th, 2014, 10:02 pm

About Motion Hole: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9983" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Keep the pin 3 1/2" to 4 1/2" from the PAP. Move it slightly up for sharper breakpoint and slightly down for more continuation.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » September 30th, 2014, 5:31 pm

Taken from: viewtopic.php?t=10164" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Reduced Flare layout ( 90 x 2 1/4" x 70) was specifically designed for asyms. with big cores because when you reduce the flare that much, you need the big core for the hit.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » September 30th, 2014, 10:53 pm

Taken from: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10162" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note: This is the first no-thumb layout I've seen Mo recommend since the grip center rule change. -- JohnP


tricman2004 wrote:

Just picked up a Yeti Uncaged, with a 2" pin and top weight of 3.5. I'm looking for layout help, below are my stats.

I also track within an inch of my middle finger.

Right handed / throw no thumb
15-16 mph on monitor
60 axis rotation
Tilt 13*
Rev rate 400 - 425
Mostly bowl on synthetic lanes,
My PAP is 5 1/2 down 2" (calculated using between fingers as center grip)


Are you a no thumb bowler? Sounds like it to me. Put the pin off the corner of your RF hole. Put the cg just below the center of your grip (center of the finger holes).

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Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » October 8th, 2014, 5:04 pm

Question if top wt causes the tilt retention, taken from:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7374&view=unread#unread" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The increase in the gyroscopic inertia by creating a column of air (much less dense than the ball; .013 sg compared to an average of 1.9 sg) near the axis of rotation of the ball causes the ball to retain axis rotation longer.

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Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » October 8th, 2014, 6:41 pm

The increase in the gyroscopic inertia by creating a column of air (much less dense than the ball; .013 sg compared to an average of 1.9 sg) near the axis of rotation of the ball causes the ball to retain axis rotation longer.
Note: This quote deals with why the MOtion Hole layout increases length and continuation. -- JohnP

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