Mo Says

Ask Mo Pinel and the bowling industry's best your general questions, and get straight answers.

Moderators: MathIsTruth, purduepaul, Mo Pinel, ballspinner

Forum rules
Ask Mo Pinel and the bowling industry's best your questions, and get straight answers.
This forum is moderated exclusively by Mo & Friends.
Locked
JohnP
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Mo Says

Post by JohnP » December 1st, 2011, 4:48 pm

From: viewtopic.php?t=4750" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You've got it right. On asyms., use pin to PAP distances of 2 3/4" to 4" to get the ball to change direction and read friction. Use 4" to 5" pin to PAP distances when you want to play straighter.
This response has inspired me to start a "Mo Says" page in Word. As I find other helpful hints I'll add them to the page and keep it for reference. If anyone has similar quotes please either post them here or provide the link and I'll add them to my page. If requested I'll try to figure out how to add a page to the wiki for others to use. -- JohnP
Last edited by JohnP on February 21st, 2013, 12:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

jpj6780
Member
Member
Posts: 333
Joined: June 23rd, 2011, 3:47 pm
Positive Axis Point: 4-5/8" over 1/2"up
Speed: 17 hand
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 16
Axis Rotation: 50
Heavy Oil Ball: Roto Grip Theory 48/4.25/47 p3
Medium Oil Ball: Perpetual Motion 65/2.25/25 p3
Light Oil Ball: Mojave 70/4.25/47
Preferred Company: Morich
Location: Lowcountry SC

Re: Mo Says

Post by jpj6780 » December 1st, 2011, 5:19 pm

Great idea. You might include a reference as well, such as: in response to question regarding pap to pin for low tilt, high rotation, 400 rpm, 18mph bowler.

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: Mo Says

Post by Mo Pinel » December 1st, 2011, 5:30 pm

JohnP wrote: This response has inspired me to start a "Mo Says" page in Word. As I find other helpful hints I'll add them to the page and keep it for reference. If anyone has similar quotes please either post them here or provide the link and I'll add them to my page. If requested I'll try to figure out how to add a page to the wiki for others to use. -- JohnP

That quote was for low tilt bowlers. For high tilt bowlers, don't use 3" to 4" pin to PAPs on asyms. unless there's lots of friction, or you're using a ton of surface with a big, strong balance hole. Use 4" to 5" pin to PAPs to read friction and 5" to 6" pin to PAPs to play straight. Another example of the need for accurate delivery specs.

JohnP
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » December 1st, 2011, 8:30 pm

Modified the first quote and added the second. -- JohnP

House Dressing
Member
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: January 6th, 2011, 5:15 pm

Re: Mo Says

Post by House Dressing » December 5th, 2011, 1:38 pm

Re: Mo Says:
Hide the F'n polish........ :lol:

User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3655
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Mo Says

Post by EricHartwell » December 6th, 2011, 2:39 am

Hand grenades at 20 paces
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

JohnP
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » December 6th, 2011, 5:35 pm

I'm really looking for succinct technical information instead of "Moisms". -- JohnP

CrankyOldMan
Member
Member
Posts: 400
Joined: November 2nd, 2011, 3:39 am
THS Average: 198
Positive Axis Point: 5.00" x 0.5" up
Speed: 16.0 mph
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 35
Heavy Oil Ball: Hammer BW Legend, Ebonite Warrior Supreme, DV8 Pitbull Growl
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick Quantum Fire Pearl, Storm IQ Tour, DV8 Hitman
Light Oil Ball: Hammer Midnight Vibe
Preferred Company: Storm, DV8, Brunswick, Hammer
Location: Bel Air, Maryland

Re: Mo Says

Post by CrankyOldMan » December 7th, 2011, 12:41 am

What do we have here? A "local legend in his own mind" perhaps?

:lol:

ijohn83
Member
Member
Posts: 121
Joined: October 1st, 2010, 7:48 am
THS Average: 188
Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 over x 3/4up
Speed: Off the hand: 17.0 MPH
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Tilt: 3
Axis Rotation: 70
Preferred Company: LaneMaster

Re: Mo Says

Post by ijohn83 » December 11th, 2011, 12:11 am

BOWLING WELL IS RELATED TO EFFICIENCY, NOT EXERTION!
Right Handed
MF - 4 1/8, 1/4 L, 1/8 Rev.
RF - 4 5/16, 5/8 R, 3/8 Rev.
Thumb - 3 1/8" Long, 7/16 Rev, 1/8 R, 47 Deg. oval (27/32 x 1)
PAP: 5 3/4 x 3/4 up
Speed: 18.0 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Rot: 70
Axis Tilt: 3

User avatar
juice
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 237
Joined: September 28th, 2011, 1:30 am
Location: Selinsgrove, PA

Re: Mo Says

Post by juice » December 13th, 2011, 5:59 pm

Mo says: "There's no IQ test in bowling"
"Observe, Adjust, and Overcome."

- Jim J.
Manager, Pro Shop Operator
Best Bowl - Selinsgrove, PA

preoakes
Member
Member
Posts: 84
Joined: July 18th, 2010, 3:17 am
THS Average: 228
Positive Axis Point: 5 over 0 up
Speed: 16-18
Rev Rate: 315
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 30
Location: North Adams MA

Re: Mo Says

Post by preoakes » December 14th, 2011, 3:40 pm

JohnP wrote:I'm really looking for succinct technical information instead of "Moisms". -- JohnP
Ok, but you might want to start an extra one with the Mo-isms!

elgavachon
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3168
Joined: January 18th, 2010, 9:21 pm

Re: Mo Says

Post by elgavachon » December 29th, 2011, 5:47 pm

This quote taken from viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4557&p=36474#p36474" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see # 19)
ALL bowling balls with migrate along the RG contour of the Bowler's PAP. That's governed by the laws of the universe. Therefore, in order to create a unique migration path, you must create a unique RG contour for that ball. ALL balls have RG contours that use the low and high RG axis as the centroid for the RG contours. The higher the differential ratio, the more of the RG contours that are centered around the high RG axis, and the flatter those ellipses. That's just pure science and math.

User avatar
IShot811
Member
Member
Posts: 82
Joined: August 9th, 2011, 12:55 pm
THS Average: 210
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up 7/8
Speed: 18 video
Rev Rate: 250
Axis Tilt: 3
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Track 916AT (45 @ 4" x 35)
Medium Oil Ball: Hammer Onyx Vibe (37 @ 5 1/8" x 68)
Light Oil Ball: Track 300C (65 @ 5" x 32)
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Mo Says

Post by IShot811 » January 5th, 2012, 1:49 pm

We need more like this...
Mo Pinel wrote:When the fingers are over 3" deep, don't go any deeper than 2 3/4" on the balance hole! The holes will meet, if you drill the balance hole too deep.
John
Tidewater Virginia USBC Association Director
HS-811, HG-300(3), 299(5), 11 in-a-row(4)
Ball Speed - 14.5 by monitor
RevRate - 250-275
Axis Tilt - 4°
Axis Rotation - 45°
PAP - 5 1/2"> 7/8"^

JohnP
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » January 5th, 2012, 5:31 pm

ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY! -- JohnP

ijohn83
Member
Member
Posts: 121
Joined: October 1st, 2010, 7:48 am
THS Average: 188
Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 over x 3/4up
Speed: Off the hand: 17.0 MPH
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Tilt: 3
Axis Rotation: 70
Preferred Company: LaneMaster

Re: Mo Says

Post by ijohn83 » January 7th, 2012, 6:34 pm

Mo Pinel wrote:
Staying behind the ball causes it to track high. Specifically, lack of axis tilt. Staying in the thumb too long causes it to track very close to the thumb. That's the real skinny.
Right Handed
MF - 4 1/8, 1/4 L, 1/8 Rev.
RF - 4 5/16, 5/8 R, 3/8 Rev.
Thumb - 3 1/8" Long, 7/16 Rev, 1/8 R, 47 Deg. oval (27/32 x 1)
PAP: 5 3/4 x 3/4 up
Speed: 18.0 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Rot: 70
Axis Tilt: 3

User avatar
IShot811
Member
Member
Posts: 82
Joined: August 9th, 2011, 12:55 pm
THS Average: 210
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up 7/8
Speed: 18 video
Rev Rate: 250
Axis Tilt: 3
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Track 916AT (45 @ 4" x 35)
Medium Oil Ball: Hammer Onyx Vibe (37 @ 5 1/8" x 68)
Light Oil Ball: Track 300C (65 @ 5" x 32)
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Mo Says

Post by IShot811 » January 10th, 2012, 2:55 pm

Mo Pinel wrote:Don't worry about the cg. No problem. CGs don't mean a thing (to) ball motion as long as the ball has legal statics. .... NEVER put balance holes below the thumb. Too much of a chance of flaring over it.
John
Tidewater Virginia USBC Association Director
HS-811, HG-300(3), 299(5), 11 in-a-row(4)
Ball Speed - 14.5 by monitor
RevRate - 250-275
Axis Tilt - 4°
Axis Rotation - 45°
PAP - 5 1/2"> 7/8"^

JohnP
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » January 10th, 2012, 4:57 pm

With Scotch Brite pads, it's all about the pressure you use with the pad. Burgundy results in 400 to 800 depending on the pressure. Grey results in 800 to 1500, again, depending on the pressure used.
Using scuff pads is not an exact science, but this is usually done during practice when the ball you want to use is not reacting enough. After the bowling is done, I always recommend using a spinner to return the ball to its' normal surface.

JohnP
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » January 10th, 2012, 5:11 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4735" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On a symmetrical ball drilled without a balance hole, the PSA (high RG) axis ends up very near the thumb. That puts the PAP near the intermediate RG axis on a vast majority of bowlers. Putting a balance hole in the PAP, which is near the int. RG axis, raises the RG of the int. RG axis. That decreases the int. diff., which makes the ball more symmetrical. That's what blueprint's excellent attachment shows. This explanation is for those who have math phobia.

JohnP
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: Mo Says

Post by JohnP » January 10th, 2012, 5:15 pm

From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4747" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Increasing the reverse in the middle finger actually helped to lower your tilt. Changing pitches changes the resulting ball motion. If you have to change the grip to accomodate issues like this, CHANGE THE SPAN FIRST TO RELIEVE THE PRESSURE, NOT THE PITCH, UNLESS YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE ROLL!

User avatar
BCP27
Member
Member
Posts: 510
Joined: July 10th, 2011, 1:44 am
Speed: 13 on monitor
Heavy Oil Ball: Hopefully a Raptor P7 or a DestroyR soon
Medium Oil Ball: 2furious, I don't have any other balls right now
Light Oil Ball: my ol' Tropical Storm.
Preferred Company: Unknown
Location: Metro Area, Minnesota

Re: Mo Says

Post by BCP27 » January 11th, 2012, 2:42 am

JohnP wrote:With Scotch Brite pads, it's all about the pressure you use with the pad. Burgundy results in 400 to 800 depending on the pressure. Grey results in 800 to 1500, again, depending on the pressure used.
Using scuff pads is not an exact science, but this is usually done during practice when the ball you want to use is not reacting enough. After the bowling is done, I always recommend using a spinner to return the ball to its' normal surface.
Green Pads are for dishes!

I wish I read that before using a green pad several times on my 2furious....oh well it worked pretty well for me. It got my pin down 2furious reading early enough for the smooth arc to bounce off the dry when my Tropical Storm over-skidded....which is usually the case on fresh oil.

Locked