Matching up on medium conditions
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Ask Mo Pinel and the bowling industry's best your questions, and get straight answers.
This forum is moderated exclusively by Mo & Friends.
-
- Member
- Posts: 502
- Joined: February 11th, 2011, 9:36 pm
- THS Average: 203
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8 right x 1 up
- Speed: 20 off hand
- Rev Rate: 360
- Axis Tilt: 10
- Axis Rotation: 55
- Preferred Company: Radical, Storm, Motiv
Matching up on medium conditions
PAP: 5 1/2 right x 5/8 up
Tilt: 20 deg
Rot: 45-70 deg
Speed: 17-18 monitor
Revs: ~300
Current arsenal.............
Nano - 55 x 4 1/2 x 30 P3 1500 Sia with Black Magic Polish
Marvel - 55 x 4 3/4 x 55 P2 500/2000
Reign - 10 x 3 1/4 x 40 Hole is 2" below midline/Val intersect on VAL 3000 Sia
Several have posted on here that using aggressive covers on lanes without enough oil actually decreases motion on the back part of the lane. I'm bowling on THS league and am considering another ball.
For my next purchase I'm considering the following options:
1) A "super cover" asymetrical with higher sum totals and longer pin to PAP.
2) A non "super cover" asymetrical with a strong core drilled with a stronger layout.
3) A ball designed to be strong on medium conditons with an appropriate layout.
Feel free to share any thoughts on the 3 options. Thanks
Tilt: 20 deg
Rot: 45-70 deg
Speed: 17-18 monitor
Revs: ~300
Current arsenal.............
Nano - 55 x 4 1/2 x 30 P3 1500 Sia with Black Magic Polish
Marvel - 55 x 4 3/4 x 55 P2 500/2000
Reign - 10 x 3 1/4 x 40 Hole is 2" below midline/Val intersect on VAL 3000 Sia
Several have posted on here that using aggressive covers on lanes without enough oil actually decreases motion on the back part of the lane. I'm bowling on THS league and am considering another ball.
For my next purchase I'm considering the following options:
1) A "super cover" asymetrical with higher sum totals and longer pin to PAP.
2) A non "super cover" asymetrical with a strong core drilled with a stronger layout.
3) A ball designed to be strong on medium conditons with an appropriate layout.
Feel free to share any thoughts on the 3 options. Thanks
Rev rate ~ 350
Speed 17.5 at foul line
Tilt 8*
Rotation ~ 55*
PAP 4 1/4 right x 1 up
Speed 17.5 at foul line
Tilt 8*
Rotation ~ 55*
PAP 4 1/4 right x 1 up
- Triplicate
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1410
- Joined: September 2nd, 2010, 12:04 am
- THS Average: 220
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 x 1 1/2
- Speed: 16-18 at Foul Line
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 7-10
- Axis Rotation: 45+-
- Location: Canada
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
Non of the above IMHO.mattypizon wrote:PAP: 5 1/2 right x 5/8 up
Tilt: 20 deg
Rot: 45-70 deg
Speed: 17-18 monitor
Revs: ~300
Current arsenal.............
Nano - 55 x 4 1/2 x 30 P3 1500 Sia with Black Magic Polish
Marvel - 55 x 4 3/4 x 55 P2 500/2000
Reign - 10 x 3 1/4 x 40 Hole is 2" below midline/Val intersect on VAL 3000 Sia
Several have posted on here that using aggressive covers on lanes without enough oil actually decreases motion on the back part of the lane. I'm bowling on THS league and am considering another ball.
For my next purchase I'm considering the following options:
1) A "super cover" asymetrical with higher sum totals and longer pin to PAP.
2) A non "super cover" asymetrical with a strong core drilled with a stronger layout.
3) A ball designed to be strong on medium conditons with an appropriate layout.
Feel free to share any thoughts on the 3 options. Thanks
You need to play straighter lines on THS situations to score well. Sure there is always an exception to the rule but don't try to be that guy. Choose balls and layouts that allow you to play straighter.
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the on the bottom right.
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the on the bottom right.
- kellytehuna
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2891
- Joined: January 18th, 2010, 11:11 pm
- THS Average: 195
- Positive Axis Point: 3.75", 1" up
- Speed: 18
- Rev Rate: 480
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 40
- Heavy Oil Ball: Morich DestroyR
- Medium Oil Ball: Morich Perpetual Motion
- Light Oil Ball: Morich Mojave
- Preferred Company: Morich
- Location: Hazard, KY
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
IMHO, play whatever game you like. If you prefer to swing it, get in and swing it. If you prefer to play up the boards, play up the boards.
I've been using our THS as a learning ground for playing certain lines. In the past 3 years, I've played the same house four different ways (up 5, small belly going over 2nd arrow, deep inside line and over the cap). Right now, I'm playing near the 3rd arrow with my feet between 25 and 35 lay down around 20-30.
THS might be a "soft" condition, but I think it's a good "proving ground" for hand changes because of it. Once you can consistently repeat something on a THS, then next challenge is to move to a sport compliant shot to perfect it.
Just my opinion...
I've been using our THS as a learning ground for playing certain lines. In the past 3 years, I've played the same house four different ways (up 5, small belly going over 2nd arrow, deep inside line and over the cap). Right now, I'm playing near the 3rd arrow with my feet between 25 and 35 lay down around 20-30.
THS might be a "soft" condition, but I think it's a good "proving ground" for hand changes because of it. Once you can consistently repeat something on a THS, then next challenge is to move to a sport compliant shot to perfect it.
Just my opinion...
Father, Husband, Bowler, Web developer
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
Playing straight on THS completely defeats the purpose of having friction on the outside part of the lane. You should feed the ball to friction at the appropriate distance on the lane.
Straight play doesnt take advantage of the large side to side ratio.
Straight play doesnt take advantage of the large side to side ratio.
- Triplicate
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1410
- Joined: September 2nd, 2010, 12:04 am
- THS Average: 220
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 x 1 1/2
- Speed: 16-18 at Foul Line
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 7-10
- Axis Rotation: 45+-
- Location: Canada
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
I would disagree as previously stated. Playing straighter gives you both tug and swing providing your using the right ball with the right surface and releasing it in such a way to take advantage of the wall. The best ball reps on tour in the business have confirm this for me as well. When these guys talk you just plain listen.MegaMav wrote:Playing straight on THS completely defeats the purpose of having friction on the outside part of the lane. You should feed the ball to friction at the appropriate distance on the lane.
Straight play doesnt take advantage of the large side to side ratio.
I just shot another 800 series in last months tournament doing exactly this. Of course you have to be able to repeat shots. I was able to strike on a few bad shots playing in this area so a little luck never hurts either. This month I played 18 at the arrows out to 9 at 45' and hit the pocket really well but could not carry. All the scores were lower. Lots of 4's and ringing 10's along with 8 and 9 pin taps. Throw in a couple of 4-9's and that's the way my day went. In hindsight I should have used a little weaker piece.
Actually I like it best when my competition moves inside and does the bump thing. They are only going to help my line last longer.
Can you score inside?.... sure! I see it all the time. 279, 180.... on the THS or the other way around. These guys come to me and ask what it is their doing wrong. They always complain about over under and carry issues. Most of them can't go up the boards so I can't help them by telling them to move right. The other thing is they have way to aggressive equipment and can't live without seeing their ball jump left into the pocket. I know it's more fun to see the big benders hit the pocket. Just my experience over the years. I just want to knock down more pins and I'll go anywhere on the lane to do that.
I guess we all have to do what works best for us.
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the on the bottom right.
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the on the bottom right.
-
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 3432
- Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
- Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
- Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
- Axis Tilt: 13
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
I think one key to the discussion is that the straighter players tend to be more accurate. A big hook is an asset only if it hits the pocket. -- JohnP
- kellytehuna
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2891
- Joined: January 18th, 2010, 11:11 pm
- THS Average: 195
- Positive Axis Point: 3.75", 1" up
- Speed: 18
- Rev Rate: 480
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 40
- Heavy Oil Ball: Morich DestroyR
- Medium Oil Ball: Morich Perpetual Motion
- Light Oil Ball: Morich Mojave
- Preferred Company: Morich
- Location: Hazard, KY
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
Agreed. However, on softer conditions, you have a lot of free friction to the outside and a flood in the middle. It doesn't really matter how you chose to play the lanes in the end. For the most part, the people scoring will be getting to the same break point at the end of the condition. How they get there is inconsequential, IMO.
Father, Husband, Bowler, Web developer
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
mattypizon wrote:PAP: 5 1/2 right x 5/8 up
Tilt: 20 deg
Rot: 45-70 deg
Speed: 17-18 monitor
Revs: ~300
Current arsenal.............
Nano - 55 x 4 1/2 x 30 P3 1500 Sia with Black Magic Polish
Marvel - 55 x 4 3/4 x 55 P2 500/2000
Reign - 10 x 3 1/4 x 40 Hole is 2" below midline/Val intersect on VAL 3000 Sia
Several have posted on here that using aggressive covers on lanes without enough oil actually decreases motion on the back part of the lane. I'm bowling on THS league and am considering another ball.
For my next purchase I'm considering the following options:
1) A "super cover" asymmetrical with higher sum totals and longer pin to PAP.
2) A non "super cover" asymmetrical with a strong core drilled with a stronger layout.
3) A ball designed to be strong on medium conditions with an appropriate layout.
Feel free to share any thoughts on the 3 options. Thanks
The 20* of tilt is the give away. Here's what I suggest on wet/dry THS.
Asym.: 30 / 4 1/2 / 50
Sym.: 35 / 4 / 45
For medium conditions:
Asym.: 50 / 4 / 40
Sym.: 55 / 3 1/4 / 35
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
-
- Member
- Posts: 502
- Joined: February 11th, 2011, 9:36 pm
- THS Average: 203
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8 right x 1 up
- Speed: 20 off hand
- Rev Rate: 360
- Axis Tilt: 10
- Axis Rotation: 55
- Preferred Company: Radical, Storm, Motiv
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
It's taken me a long time to understand how much my tilt affects my game. For some reason my Marvel 500/2000/Black Magic polish has a shorter skid phase than my Nano at box finish??? In fact the Marvel has a much stronger transition at the breakpoint.
Also, before dual angles my best reactions came from 5 x 5 layouts with NO balance holes. I would estimate their dual angles at 70 x 5 x 60. Basically, pin above bridge with cg at grip center.
Any explanations are appreciated. Also, looking for ball/drilling ideas for medium oil house shot.
Thanks
Also, before dual angles my best reactions came from 5 x 5 layouts with NO balance holes. I would estimate their dual angles at 70 x 5 x 60. Basically, pin above bridge with cg at grip center.
Any explanations are appreciated. Also, looking for ball/drilling ideas for medium oil house shot.
Thanks
Rev rate ~ 350
Speed 17.5 at foul line
Tilt 8*
Rotation ~ 55*
PAP 4 1/4 right x 1 up
Speed 17.5 at foul line
Tilt 8*
Rotation ~ 55*
PAP 4 1/4 right x 1 up
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
Again, follow my detailed suggestions in my previous post. No reason to change my mind.mattypizon wrote:It's taken me a long time to understand how much my tilt affects my game. For some reason my Marvel 500/2000/Black Magic polish has a shorter skid phase than my Nano at box finish??? In fact the Marvel has a much stronger transition at the breakpoint.
Also, before dual angles my best reactions came from 5 x 5 layouts with NO balance holes. I would estimate their dual angles at 70 x 5 x 60. Basically, pin above bridge with cg at grip center.
Any explanations are appreciated. Also, looking for ball/drilling ideas for medium oil house shot.
Thanks
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
-
- Member
- Posts: 502
- Joined: February 11th, 2011, 9:36 pm
- THS Average: 203
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8 right x 1 up
- Speed: 20 off hand
- Rev Rate: 360
- Axis Tilt: 10
- Axis Rotation: 55
- Preferred Company: Radical, Storm, Motiv
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
Thanks Mo. I was looking for help making sense of it all and trying to get some ball suggestions to go along with nano, marvel, and reign.
Rev rate ~ 350
Speed 17.5 at foul line
Tilt 8*
Rotation ~ 55*
PAP 4 1/4 right x 1 up
Speed 17.5 at foul line
Tilt 8*
Rotation ~ 55*
PAP 4 1/4 right x 1 up
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
Two syms and one asym on that list. Add a HookR drilled with the suggested medium condition asym layout and you should be good to go.mattypizon wrote:Thanks Mo. I was looking for help making sense of it all and trying to get some ball suggestions to go along with nano, marvel, and reign.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
-
- Member
- Posts: 502
- Joined: February 11th, 2011, 9:36 pm
- THS Average: 203
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8 right x 1 up
- Speed: 20 off hand
- Rev Rate: 360
- Axis Tilt: 10
- Axis Rotation: 55
- Preferred Company: Radical, Storm, Motiv
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
Updated stats for me:
Pap 5 5/8 x 5/8 up
16-17 mph actual
375 rev rate
20' tilt
45' rotation
Does this change the suggested drillings?
Pap 5 5/8 x 5/8 up
16-17 mph actual
375 rev rate
20' tilt
45' rotation
Does this change the suggested drillings?
Rev rate ~ 350
Speed 17.5 at foul line
Tilt 8*
Rotation ~ 55*
PAP 4 1/4 right x 1 up
Speed 17.5 at foul line
Tilt 8*
Rotation ~ 55*
PAP 4 1/4 right x 1 up
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
mattypizon wrote:Updated stats for me:
Pap 5 5/8 x 5/8 up
16-17 mph actual
375 rev rate
20' tilt
45' rotation
Does this change the suggested drillings?
mattypizon wrote:
PAP: 5 1/2 right x 5/8 up
Tilt: 20 deg
Rot: 45-70 deg
Speed: 17-18 monitor
Revs: ~300
Current arsenal.............
Nano - 55 x 4 1/2 x 30 P3 1500 Sia with Black Magic Polish
Marvel - 55 x 4 3/4 x 55 P2 500/2000
Reign - 10 x 3 1/4 x 40 Hole is 2" below midline/Val intersect on VAL 3000 Sia
Several have posted on here that using aggressive covers on lanes without enough oil actually decreases motion on the back part of the lane. I'm bowling on THS league and am considering another ball.
For my next purchase I'm considering the following options:
1) A "super cover" asymmetrical with higher sum totals and longer pin to PAP.
2) A non "super cover" asymmetrical with a strong core drilled with a stronger layout.
3) A ball designed to be strong on medium conditions with an appropriate layout.
Feel free to share any thoughts on the 3 options. Thanks
The 20* of tilt is the give away. Here's what I suggest on wet/dry THS with the new delivery specs .
Asym.: 30 / 4 1/2 / 50
Sym.: 35 / 4 / 45
For medium conditions:
Asym.: 50 / 4 / 40
Sym.: 55 / 3 1/4 / 35
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Matching up on medium conditions
The 20* of tilt is the give away. With the new delivery specs, here's what I suggest on wet/dry THS:mattypizon wrote:Updated stats for me:
Pap 5 5/8 x 5/8 up
16-17 mph actual
375 rev rate
20' tilt
45' rotation
Does this change the suggested drillings?
Asym.: 35 / 4 1/2 / 55
Sym.: 40 / 4 / 50
For medium conditions:
Asym.: 55 / 4 / 45
Sym.: 60 / 3 1/4 / 40
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)