Re: converting a dual angle layout to a ? x ? layout
Posted: March 19th, 2012, 12:21 am
And, Mo, WE DO APPRECIATE IT!!! -- JohnP
I'm not sure if I just got blasted or if that was a friendly comment? (I sent DCG here) Let me assure you, I APPRECIATE your hard work on the wiki and I completely understand doing something for free. Hell, I had a product for 3 years that helped bowlers and gave it away free. I was merely requesting an answer to the original poster's question. Sorry, but this isn't the first forum where I have seen the "Just lay it out on the ball" answer. A true formula would help many bowlers and it just surprised me nobody has come up with this after years of Morich releasing the dual layout specs.I believe that almost everyone, but you, understands that. It's my choice and my pleasure.
Mo Pinel wrote:As Kelly said "It's all math and Spherical Trigonometry."
Let me answer to DCGoD is simple. I prefer helping people into the latest in technology. I'll guide people to locate the answers in the Wiki, which has taken a long time to develop and is the best technical resource for bowling on the net. I will help as much as I can, but I'm not just the "answer man". I already love spending an unimaginable amount of time supporting bowlingchat without any pay. I believe that almost everyone, but you, understands that. It's my choice and my pleasure.
Mo Pinel wrote:As Kelly said "It's all math and Spherical Trigonometry."
Let me answer to DCGoD is simple. I prefer helping people into the latest in technology. I'll guide people to locate the answers in the Wiki, which has taken a long time to develop and is the best technical resource for bowling on the net. I will help as much as I can, but I'm not just the "answer man". I already love spending an unimaginable amount of time supporting bowlingchat without any pay. I believe that almost everyone, but you, understands that. It's my choice and my pleasure.
DCGoD wrote:I apologize if any offense was taken in my post Mo. I have heard nothing but great things from this forum. I have been looking for a formula for this and I can say I am a "trig man". I also appreciate your hard work on the wiki. I'm sure it had helped thousands.
Sorry To get you involved Mark. I know my post sounded a little aggravated.
All is well! Just a result of writing everything down. Once it's in print, it IS forever!DCGoD wrote:I apologize if any offense was taken in my post Mo. I have heard nothing but great things from this forum. I have been looking for a formula for this and I can say I am a "trig man". I also appreciate your hard work on the wiki. I'm sure it had helped thousands.
Sorry To get you involved Mark. I know my post sounded a little aggravated.
WOW! I think I underestimated you. My apologies! Please PM MathIsTruth about this one. He'll love it, and verify.kellytehuna wrote:Here are the raw formulae. I've decided I'm going to rewrite the whole suite of tools I have and re post them when they're done. BE WARNED! A LOT OF MATH FOLLOWS! LOL!
To find the PSA to PAP distance:
a = Pin to PAP distance in inches
b = Drilling angle in degrees
PSA to PAP = arccos[sin(a * ∏ / 13.5) * cos(b * ∏ / 180)] * 13.5 / ∏ (arccos is the inverse cos operation)
You should round up or down to the nearest 1/8", whichever you feel is best.
To find the Pin Buffer:
a = Pin to PAP distance in inches
b = VAL angle in degrees
Pin Buffer = arcsin[sin(a * ∏ / 13.5) * sin(b * ∏ / 180)] * 13.5 / ∏ (arcsin is the inverse sin operation)
Again, round up or down to the nearest 1/8".
kellytehuna wrote:Here are the raw formulae. I've decided I'm going to rewrite the whole suite of tools I have and re post them when they're done. BE WARNED! A LOT OF MATH FOLLOWS! LOL!
To find the PSA to PAP distance:
a = Pin to PAP distance in inches
b = Drilling angle in degrees
PSA to PAP = arccos[sin(a * ∏ / 13.5) * cos(b * ∏ / 180)] * 13.5 / ∏ (arccos is the inverse cos operation)
You should round up or down to the nearest 1/8", whichever you feel is best.
To find the Pin Buffer:
a = Pin to PAP distance in inches
b = VAL angle in degrees
Pin Buffer = arcsin[sin(a * ∏ / 13.5) * sin(b * ∏ / 180)] * 13.5 / ∏ (arcsin is the inverse sin operation)
Again, round up or down to the nearest 1/8".
These guys are good!jpj6780 wrote:Nice work Kelly!
If you're solving using the google search engine, use the following syntax (for it to be recognized by the google calculator)
Formula 1:
you can copy and paste into google and then replace a with pin to pap and b with drilling angle to get psa to pap distance
arccos (sin(a* pi / 13.5) * cos(b * pi / 180)) * 13.5 / pi
Formula 2:
you can copy and paste into google and then replace a with pin to pap and b with val angle to get pin buffer
arcsin (sin (a * pi/ 13.5) * sin(b * pi/ 180)) * 13.5 / pi
Excellent work te huna. I enjoyed working through this. And just to be sure everyone is aware, the pin buffer distance is measured from the Pin to the VAL on a perpendicular line. Again thanks for the fun spherical trig, but then again, is there any other kind of spherical trig.kellytehuna wrote:Here are the raw formulae. I've decided I'm going to rewrite the whole suite of tools I have and re post them when they're done. BE WARNED! A LOT OF MATH FOLLOWS! LOL!
To find the PSA to PAP distance:
a = Pin to PAP distance in inches
b = Drilling angle in degrees
PSA to PAP = arccos[sin(a * ∏ / 13.5) * cos(b * ∏ / 180)] * 13.5 / ∏ (arccos is the inverse cos operation)
You should round up or down to the nearest 1/8", whichever you feel is best.
To find the Pin Buffer:
a = Pin to PAP distance in inches
b = VAL angle in degrees
Pin Buffer = arcsin[sin(a * ∏ / 13.5) * sin(b * ∏ / 180)] * 13.5 / ∏ (arcsin is the inverse sin operation)
Again, round up or down to the nearest 1/8".
Just wow! Great Job Kelly!MathIsTruth wrote: Excellent work te huna. I enjoyed working through this. And just to be sure everyone is aware, the pin buffer distance is measured from the Pin to the VAL on a perpendicular line. Again thanks for the fun spherical trig, but then again, is there any other kind of spherical trig.
Go the Wiki here:TheJesus wrote:Great topic guys, and i have a question. What if we have the old system and want to convert it to Dual Angles ? Do we have a similar conversion formula like the one posted previously ? .