Significance of Vertical Pap Coordinates

Ask Mo Pinel and the bowling industry's best your general questions, and get straight answers.

Moderators: MathIsTruth, purduepaul, Mo Pinel, ballspinner

Forum rules
Ask Mo Pinel and the bowling industry's best your questions, and get straight answers.
This forum is moderated exclusively by Mo & Friends.
Locked
Urethane Game
Member
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 4:02 pm
Preferred Company: Brunswick

Significance of Vertical Pap Coordinates

Post by Urethane Game » August 19th, 2011, 6:29 pm

Could someone please tell me the characteristics of someone with a pap of say 5 over and 1/2 up versus 5 over and 1/2 down in terms of how the ball rolls?

Thanks!

JohnP
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: Significance of Vertical Pap Coordinates

Post by JohnP » August 19th, 2011, 6:58 pm

The vertical component doesn't really tell you anything about the ball's roll. The only thing it tells you is that the initial track is closer to the grip centerline at the fingers than it is at the thumb (ie., the initial track is angled toward the fingers instead of away from the fingers). -- JohnP

Urethane Game
Member
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 4:02 pm
Preferred Company: Brunswick

Re: Significance of Vertical Pap Coordinates

Post by Urethane Game » August 19th, 2011, 7:41 pm

So which is which?

Thanks

StrikeTheory
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 711
Joined: December 16th, 2010, 5:05 am
Heavy Oil Ball: Motiv Cruel or Mutant Cell Pearl
Medium Oil Ball: Rising Star
Light Oil Ball: Silver Recon or Frenzy
Location: WV

Re: Significance of Vertical Pap Coordinates

Post by StrikeTheory » August 19th, 2011, 10:00 pm

Up is going to angle away from the fingers. Down will typically be closer the fingers than the thumb.

JohnP
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: Significance of Vertical Pap Coordinates

Post by JohnP » August 22nd, 2011, 1:35 am

Strike Theory is right, sorry I didn't make that clear. -- JohnP

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Rest In Peace
Rest In Peace
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Significance of Vertical Pap Coordinates

Post by Mo Pinel » August 22nd, 2011, 1:44 pm

StrikeTheory wrote:Up is going to angle away from the fingers. Down will typically be closer the fingers than the thumb.

The vertical coordinate has nothing to do with ball motion. It's an anomaly. The longer the thumb stays in the ball, the more the vertical coordinate is up. In full rollers, in which the thumb stays in the ball the longest, the vertical coordinate is usually 2+" up.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)

User avatar
bowl1820
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 1469
Joined: July 9th, 2012, 10:09 pm
Location: Central Florida

Re: Significance of Vertical Pap Coordinates

Post by bowl1820 » October 18th, 2014, 2:35 pm

Mo Pinel wrote: The vertical coordinate has nothing to do with ball motion.
I'm okay with this.
It's an anomaly.
I'm not sure anomaly is the right word to use here.
(Anomaly: something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.)

If it's a anomaly, What is the standard, normal, or expected it's deviating from? 0" up/down?

Because If the vertical component is "expected" to be 0" up/down, that would mean that the horizontal component (midline) would have to be perpendicular to the Track the majority of the time. (Grip centerline would be parallel to the Track in that case also).

But the majority of the time that's not the case, most bowlers have a either a up or down vertical measurement other than 0" up/down.

In a way a 0" up/down measurement is more of anomaly because it happens less often.
The longer the thumb stays in the ball, the more the vertical coordinate is up. In full rollers, in which the thumb stays in the ball the longest, the vertical coordinate is usually 2+" up.
Now if the longer the thumb stays in the ball, the higher the vertical coordinate is.

Would that also mean the earlier the thumb gets out of the ball, the lower the vertical coordinate will be?

I was just wondering that while the vertical coordinate has nothing to do with ball motion. If it could be telling you a lot more about a persons release, that might be useful.
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."

Locked