Attacking the New Cheetah Pattern
Moderators: Mo Pinel, purduepaul, MathIsTruth, ballspinner
Forum rules
Ask Mo Pinel and the bowling industry's best your questions, and get straight answers.
This forum is moderated exclusively by Mo & Friends.
Ask Mo Pinel and the bowling industry's best your questions, and get straight answers.
This forum is moderated exclusively by Mo & Friends.
-
- Member
- Posts: 61
- Joined: February 13th, 2010, 12:41 am
- THS Average: 214
- Positive Axis Point: 5 7/16' up 1/8'
- Speed: 17-19
- Axis Tilt: 0°
- Axis Rotation: 45°
- Heavy Oil Ball: Insane, Awesome Hook (retired), Quantum Raven, Mania
- Medium Oil Ball: Intense, Jack Hammer, Twisted Fury, Awesome Revs,
- Light Oil Ball: MoJave, Plastic, Urethane, Sahara, Lev RG response
- Preferred Company: MoRich
- Location: Suisun City CA
Attacking the New Cheetah Pattern
I was watching you tube on the 2009 cheetah championships, and put some thought into my arsenal.
It seems that everyone was playing right of 10 board with small differential equipment. Norm Duke was playing with a long pin or pin over the fingers. Alot of urethane being played (small differential balls).
I have a regional coming up on the new cheetah pattern in Sutter Creek, which is a wood house (the kicker).
How would you attack the new cheetah? I am a versatile player, able to release 0°, 45°, 90°, with high speed (I can throw in 25 mph+, 6'3 280lbs helps)but prefer to be around 15-17 so I can read the back end easier.
I have been experimenting with weak layouts on aggressive cover equipment, weak layouts on weak equipment, pin under, (staying away from pin over fingers but cheetah might force me to use pin over), etc.
I my driller is Mark, in Vallejo Ca, Dorn Niendorf's Pro Shop. I don't have my specs on my balls handy. My knowledge does not go that far yet. All I know is what the relationship is between RG, Pin placement, cover, vs my speed. So far 3d offsets, Faball (pre ebonite), some Track, Ezrev line MoRich, Quantum, a couple of RotoGrips, have done well for me.
I will post up some pictures of my equipment that think will work and some equipment that might work as soon as my batteries charge in the digital camera.
Now I know that the cheetah will be different from house to house so one shot might not carry as well as the other.
I am a rookie, that has a desire to learn, compete and win. I lack the experience but that will come. I have 2 weeks to practice on cheetah at a local house (they are not wood lanes).
Just called Mark, he says my axis rotation is normally is about 60°. It changes with lane play.
I have 0° tilt, very high track player. I don't have my RPM yet but Al Louie (my coach) says I have alot. My PAP is 5 7/16' up 1/8', pitch in my fingers is 3/8 up.
Silver Streak Pearl 1500 polished scotch brite pad
Sahara 4000 polished abralon pad
Twisted Fury 1500 polished scotch brite pad Drilled weak, strong cover
MoJave 2000 polished abralon pad
Awesome Revs box finish
Jackhammer 1500 polished scotch brite pad
And the Urethanes 360 polished, box finish, 360 scotch brite pad
Other equipment that I don't think I will use on cheetah.
Insane 1500 scotch brite pad polished
Intense 1000 scotch brite pad
Tour Hammer (box finish)
Tour Hammer 500 scotch brite pad
Quantum Raven 1500 abralon pad polished
Awesome Revs 1500 abralon pad polished
It seems that everyone was playing right of 10 board with small differential equipment. Norm Duke was playing with a long pin or pin over the fingers. Alot of urethane being played (small differential balls).
I have a regional coming up on the new cheetah pattern in Sutter Creek, which is a wood house (the kicker).
How would you attack the new cheetah? I am a versatile player, able to release 0°, 45°, 90°, with high speed (I can throw in 25 mph+, 6'3 280lbs helps)but prefer to be around 15-17 so I can read the back end easier.
I have been experimenting with weak layouts on aggressive cover equipment, weak layouts on weak equipment, pin under, (staying away from pin over fingers but cheetah might force me to use pin over), etc.
I my driller is Mark, in Vallejo Ca, Dorn Niendorf's Pro Shop. I don't have my specs on my balls handy. My knowledge does not go that far yet. All I know is what the relationship is between RG, Pin placement, cover, vs my speed. So far 3d offsets, Faball (pre ebonite), some Track, Ezrev line MoRich, Quantum, a couple of RotoGrips, have done well for me.
I will post up some pictures of my equipment that think will work and some equipment that might work as soon as my batteries charge in the digital camera.
Now I know that the cheetah will be different from house to house so one shot might not carry as well as the other.
I am a rookie, that has a desire to learn, compete and win. I lack the experience but that will come. I have 2 weeks to practice on cheetah at a local house (they are not wood lanes).
Just called Mark, he says my axis rotation is normally is about 60°. It changes with lane play.
I have 0° tilt, very high track player. I don't have my RPM yet but Al Louie (my coach) says I have alot. My PAP is 5 7/16' up 1/8', pitch in my fingers is 3/8 up.
Silver Streak Pearl 1500 polished scotch brite pad
Sahara 4000 polished abralon pad
Twisted Fury 1500 polished scotch brite pad Drilled weak, strong cover
MoJave 2000 polished abralon pad
Awesome Revs box finish
Jackhammer 1500 polished scotch brite pad
And the Urethanes 360 polished, box finish, 360 scotch brite pad
Other equipment that I don't think I will use on cheetah.
Insane 1500 scotch brite pad polished
Intense 1000 scotch brite pad
Tour Hammer (box finish)
Tour Hammer 500 scotch brite pad
Quantum Raven 1500 abralon pad polished
Awesome Revs 1500 abralon pad polished
Last edited by LordOrange on March 25th, 2010, 2:07 pm, edited 17 times in total.
Everyones Best ball should be their spare ball.
In the bag:
Mania, MoJave , LevRG Response, 'Nsane, Sahara, Special Edition Spare ball, Frenzy.
On the Bench:
'Ntense, Awesome Revs, & other MoRich Balls
Retired:
Awesome Hook, Awesome finish
In the bag:
Mania, MoJave , LevRG Response, 'Nsane, Sahara, Special Edition Spare ball, Frenzy.
On the Bench:
'Ntense, Awesome Revs, & other MoRich Balls
Retired:
Awesome Hook, Awesome finish
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Attacking the New Cheetah Pattern
You gave me everything about your game except axis tilt. Need tilt to be accurate with suggestions.LordOrange wrote:I was watching you tube on the 2009 cheetah championships, and put some thought into my arsenal.
It seems that everyone was playing right of 10 board with small differential equipment. Norm Duke was playing with a long pin or pin over the fingers. Alot of urethane being played (small differential balls).
I have a regional coming up on the new cheetah pattern in Sutter Creek, which is a wood house (the kicker).
How would you attack the new cheetah? I am a versatile player, able to release 0°, 45°, 90°, with high speed (I can throw in 25 mph+, 6'3 280lbs helps)but prefer to be around 15-17 so I can read the back end easier.
I have been experimenting with weak layouts on aggressive cover equipment, weak layouts on weak equipment, pin under, (staying away from pin over fingers but cheetah might force me to use pin over), etc.
I my driller is Mark, in Vallejo Ca, Niendorf Dorn Pro Shop. I don't have my specs on my balls handy. My knowledge does not go that far yet. All I know is what the relationship is between RG, Pin placement, cover, vs my speed. So far 3d offsets, Faball (pre ebonite), some Track, Ezrev line MoRich, Quantum, a couple of RotoGrips, have done well for me.
I will post up some pictures of my equipment that think will work and some equipment that might work as soon as my batteries charge in the digital camera.
Now I know that the cheetah will be different from house to house so one shot might not carry as well as the other.
I am a rookie, that has a desire to learn, compete and win. I lack the experience but that will come. I have 2 weeks to practice on cheetah at a local house (they are not wood lanes).
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Attacking the New Cheetah Pattern
Great editing on your original post, so I week later, I can address all your concerns. There are lots of issues here.Mo Pinel wrote: You gave me everything about your game except axis tilt. Need tilt to be accurate with suggestions.
First, let me comment on your axis tilt. The 0* to 3* of tilt will always create issues. Your versatility will increase drastically if you can increase your tilt to the 11* to 15* range. I do not know Mark, your ball driller, but I am very familiar with Al Louie. Al has been IBPSIA Advanced Certified by me. That means that he is very familiar with "performance fitting". Have Al look at your grip and make performance adjustments to help increase your tilt. He knows how to get a hold of me if he wants my help. This will probably help you the most.
Second, in looking at your layouts, I noticed a couple of things. It looks like ALL your balance holes are very near your PAP. Balance holes on the PAP (or close) will CUT the total diff. of the drilled balls. I believe you can increase the versatility of your arsenal by moving some of those balance holes. That will, also, help. Paying attention to "Gradient Line" balance hole locations will help your arsenal.
Third, I noticed that on your Twisted Fury and your Sahara, your PSA is way left (beyond a 90* drilling angle). That's OK for those two balls as they will have great length and long transitions. That leads me to conclude that most of the balance holes on your other equipment should be moved to varying stronger positions.
Now to address layouts for the new Cheetah pattern on wood. Because of the existence of a ball track in wood lanes, usually it is best to stay right and "ball down" as long as possible, then jump over to the inside of the track. With your ball speed, you should not need to many weak layouts in weak covers. Mostly weak layouts in medium to strong covers with smooth surfaces (4000 to some with polish).
For your game, here are my recommended layouts for Cheetah on wood:
For symmetrical balls: 80 / 5 / 45 with no hole or a P1 hole (will decrease reaction)
For asymmetrical balls: 90 / 2 1/2 / 50 (same hole locations as for symmetrical balls)
I hope this qualifies as a thorough enough answer.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: Attacking the New Cheetah Pattern
I wish my ball driller spent half the time with me, as you do with everyone here.
I'll have a video up soon, with specs and all that, to give me a layout for my Ntense LevRG.
Thanks for spending your time here.
-Eric
I'll have a video up soon, with specs and all that, to give me a layout for my Ntense LevRG.
Thanks for spending your time here.
-Eric
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Attacking the New Cheetah Pattern
That my be why he has more money than I do!MegaMav wrote:I wish my ball driller spent half the time with me, as you do with everyone here.
I'll have a video up soon, with specs and all that, to give me a layout for my Ntense LevRG.
Thanks for spending your time here.
-Eric
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: Attacking the New Cheetah Pattern
Kenny Hall?Mo Pinel wrote:That may be why he has more money than I do!
I doubt it.
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Attacking the New Cheetah Pattern
Tell Kenny I said "Hi!" I've known him a long time and think well of him.MegaMav wrote: Kenny Hall?
I doubt it.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
-
- Member
- Posts: 363
- Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:06 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Heavy Oil Ball: Craze/Mania
- Medium Oil Ball: Craze/Mania
- Light Oil Ball: usually change release
- Preferred Company: MORICH
- Location: Upstate NY
Re: Attacking the New Cheetah Pattern
Hi Eric, you should really give Clay Reinginer a look for drillng you a ball, he's at Uncle Sam Lanes in Troy, Monday, Wednesday and Friday. He just drilled my Craze with double thumb layout. He will work with you as long as you need, he's really into it.
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: Attacking the New Cheetah Pattern
Mo, I'll let Kenny know next time im in the shop.
I'll even PM you his shop number in case you want to say Hi yourself
Jake, Kenny and I have a good relationship.
I dont think Id consider a new driller at this point.
We got my grip straightened out 2 years ago.
I lay the ball out, he hits the lines.
Hes a awesome driller with a knack for ovals, good man, and a great bowler.
I'll even PM you his shop number in case you want to say Hi yourself
Jake, Kenny and I have a good relationship.
I dont think Id consider a new driller at this point.
We got my grip straightened out 2 years ago.
I lay the ball out, he hits the lines.
Hes a awesome driller with a knack for ovals, good man, and a great bowler.
-
- Member
- Posts: 363
- Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:06 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Heavy Oil Ball: Craze/Mania
- Medium Oil Ball: Craze/Mania
- Light Oil Ball: usually change release
- Preferred Company: MORICH
- Location: Upstate NY
Re: Attacking the New Cheetah Pattern
Yes, I like Kenny too, he's drilled a few balls for me before he moved to Schenectady and then to Menands and I watch him on TV just about every weekend...
good luck !!!
good luck !!!
-
- Member
- Posts: 61
- Joined: February 13th, 2010, 12:41 am
- THS Average: 214
- Positive Axis Point: 5 7/16' up 1/8'
- Speed: 17-19
- Axis Tilt: 0°
- Axis Rotation: 45°
- Heavy Oil Ball: Insane, Awesome Hook (retired), Quantum Raven, Mania
- Medium Oil Ball: Intense, Jack Hammer, Twisted Fury, Awesome Revs,
- Light Oil Ball: MoJave, Plastic, Urethane, Sahara, Lev RG response
- Preferred Company: MoRich
- Location: Suisun City CA
Re: Attacking the New Cheetah Pattern
Just an update:
Morich Lev RG Response drilled:
90 / 2 1/2 / 50
Will get a picture up later. I will let you know how it does. Thanks.
Morich Lev RG Response drilled:
90 / 2 1/2 / 50
Will get a picture up later. I will let you know how it does. Thanks.
Everyones Best ball should be their spare ball.
In the bag:
Mania, MoJave , LevRG Response, 'Nsane, Sahara, Special Edition Spare ball, Frenzy.
On the Bench:
'Ntense, Awesome Revs, & other MoRich Balls
Retired:
Awesome Hook, Awesome finish
In the bag:
Mania, MoJave , LevRG Response, 'Nsane, Sahara, Special Edition Spare ball, Frenzy.
On the Bench:
'Ntense, Awesome Revs, & other MoRich Balls
Retired:
Awesome Hook, Awesome finish