questions about differential, which leads to spin time, etc.

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MeNoRevs
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questions about differential, which leads to spin time, etc.

Post by MeNoRevs »

This is really a question for Steve and Mo...

Someone showed me this picture of what Rhino used out on tour, you guys have probably seen this...

Image

Now Chris Schelmer said the following....
As you can see the pin is below the thumb and the extra hole is by the thumb. By inverting this core we were able to drill into the larger part of the core and reduce the differential even more, thus making it more stable and controllable.
Now I learned a while back, to decrease spin time, we would drill the holes deeper. Now through CAD we have learned with the Double Thumb layout, even drilling into the weight block, the ball would have more differential...

So I guess my question is, what is the real reason this worked? Was it because differential was taken out by drilling, or was it because the inverted core would of done this anyway?

Steve, do you think you can CAD this up with the Awakening core? I know the one that the Natural is different, but can you get something close? Do you need numbers?
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Re: questions about differential, which leads to spin time, etc.

Post by Mo Pinel »

MeNoRevs wrote:This is really a question for Steve and Mo...

Someone showed me this picture of what Rhino used out on tour, you guys have probably seen this...

Image

Now Chris Schelmer said the following....
Now I learned a while back, to decrease spin time, we would drill the holes deeper. Now through CAD we have learned with the Double Thumb layout, even drilling into the weight block, the ball would have more differential...

So I guess my question is, what is the real reason this worked? Was it because differential was taken out by drilling, or was it because the inverted core would of done this anyway?

Steve, do you think you can CAD this up with the Awakening core? I know the one that the Natural is different, but can you get something close? Do you need numbers?
I may be blind, but I can't locate the pin. Keep in mind that the pattern this was used on was extremely short and of low volume, specialized circumstances. I don't buy the reasoning. I do buy the results. I believe the diffs. were increased and resulted in "hook/ stop" which decreased hook as the ball set up sooner. Just my thoughts! It is OK to disagree, somewhat. It's how we behave when we disagree that determines who we are.
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Re: questions about differential, which leads to spin time, etc.

Post by MathIsTruth »

I am having a hard time seeing the pin as well. I believe it is at the bottom of the ball which means they used the opposite end of the Low RG axis as the pin location.
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Re: questions about differential, which leads to spin time, etc.

Post by Mo Pinel »

MathIsTruth wrote:I am having a hard time seeing the pin as well. I believe it is at the bottom of the ball which means they used the opposite end of the Low RG axis as the pin location.
Good point, Steve. They used the core upside down. I used to do that at Hammer to stand the ball up. The Natural is symmetrical so no matter how you drill it, there won't be much int. diff in the drilled ball anyway.
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Re: questions about differential, which leads to spin time, etc.

Post by MathIsTruth »

Mo Pinel wrote: Good point, Steve. They used the core upside down. I used to do that at Hammer to stand the ball up. The Natural is symmetrical so no matter how you drill it, there won't be much int. diff in the drilled ball anyway.
The core in the Natural is basically a light bulb with a cylinder at the other end. I do not know if the core is a single density or multi density. The holes will intersect the core at different places and remove a different amount of mass when the core is inverted.
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Re: questions about differential, which leads to spin time, etc.

Post by MattCosta7 »

MathIsTruth wrote:I am having a hard time seeing the pin as well. I believe it is at the bottom of the ball which means they used the opposite end of the Low RG axis as the pin location.

The pin is about 4-5" below the thumb, slightly offset to the right from the line drawn from the top of the image through the thumb. Lower/right quadrant, right along the oil track line
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Re: questions about differential, which leads to spin time, etc.

Post by Mo Pinel »

MattCosta7 wrote:
The pin is about 4-5" below the thumb, slightly offset to the right from the line drawn from the top of the image through the thumb. Lower/right quadrant, right along the oil track line
That would put the pin a good ways from the PAP, a normally low flare position on a symmetrical ball. Confirms my suspicion that the layout increases the diffs. of the drilled ball. Again, a specialized situation. Case closed for me.
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Re: questions about differential, which leads to spin time, etc.

Post by MeNoRevs »

Mo Pinel wrote: That would put the pin a good ways from the PAP, a normally low flare position on a symmetrical ball. Confirms my suspicion that the layout increases the diffs. of the drilled ball. Again, a specialized situation. Case closed for me.

Thanks, I will see you in a couple weeks in PA.
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Re: questions about differential, which leads to spin time, etc.

Post by purduepaul »

Yeah keep in mind that it is a storm natural and a urethane coverstocked bowling ball. Secondly, this same exact reaction could have probably been caused with a different more traditional layout. In addition, from the flare on the ball, this looked to me like it has some decent flare, so IMO it could have been done with a traditional layout.
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Re: questions about differential, which leads to spin time, etc.

Post by MattCosta7 »

The way it seems to me, is that this consists of a transposition of the pin to the other side of the ball...a continuation of that axes would lead to similar properties I would assume......With a high topweight ball and what looks to be a 5" pin to cg, I would guess that in order to remain legal and keep the balance hole where it was desired, maybe the flip allowed for that? Also, more core-shape related, if you flip that core, you put the fingers into the "flip cap", and the thumb into the bulb section of the core, which would leave mildly different mass properties, lowering the entire rg of the core?

Just my guesstimate?


I can't imagine it being useable in many situations, and definitely a pain in the rump to layout, when something else could be made to work much simpler I would assume.
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Re: questions about differential, which leads to spin time, etc.

Post by Mo Pinel »

MattCosta7 wrote:The way it seems to me, is that this consists of a transposition of the pin to the other side of the ball...a continuation of that axes would lead to similar properties I would assume......With a high topweight ball and what looks to be a 5" pin to cg, I would guess that in order to remain legal and keep the balance hole where it was desired, maybe the flip allowed for that? Also, more core-shape related, if you flip that core, you put the fingers into the "flip cap", and the thumb into the bulb section of the core, which would leave mildly different mass properties, lowering the entire rg of the core?

Just my guesstimate?


I can't imagine it being useable in many situations, and definitely a pain in the rump to layout, when something else could be made to work much simpler I would assume.
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