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 Post subject: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:59 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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When I roll a plastic or urethane bowling ball my track is very high but when I throw a resin ball the track gets a lot lower. So my pap would vary with each type of ball correct?
Which type of ball should I use to find my pap? Resin or plastic or urethane?
I've been told to use the track on my plastic spare ball to find my pap but that does not make sense to me when my track changes when using resin balls.


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 Post subject: Re: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:20 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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Freedom1955 wrote:
When I roll a plastic or urethane bowling ball my track is very high but when I throw a resin ball the track gets a lot lower. So my pap would vary with each type of ball correct?
Which type of ball should I use to find my pap? Resin or plastic or urethane?
I've been told to use the track on my plastic spare ball to find my pap but that does not make sense to me when my track changes when using resin balls.


If you use resin on the first ball, use a resin ball to get your PAP.
Better yet, do it on 3 resin balls and average the PAP of the 3 balls.
Depending upon core shape and where the core sits in your hand, your PAP will vary.

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 Post subject: Re: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:15 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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When you locate your PAP be sure to mark the location with a piece of white tape and have someone watch when you throw a few shots. If you've got the correct location the tape will look like a white dot when you release the ball. It's fairly easy to miss the first few track rings and base the PAP on a later flare ring. -- JohnP


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 Post subject: Re: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:05 am Post Number: #4 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

If you use resin on the first ball, use a resin ball to get your PAP.
Better yet, do it on 3 resin balls and average the PAP of the 3 balls.
Depending upon core shape and where the core sits in your hand, your PAP will vary.

I didn't want to here that. In fact if you are correct I'm going to vomit as all of my current arsenals layouts are based on my pap derived from my plastic spare ball.


Last edited by Freedom1955 on Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:08 am Post Number: #5 Post
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JohnP wrote:
When you locate your PAP be sure to mark the location with a piece of white tape and have someone watch when you throw a few shots. If you've got the correct location the tape will look like a white dot when you release the ball. It's fairly easy to miss the first few track rings and base the PAP on a later flare ring. -- JohnP

Thanks John I will try that.


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 Post subject: Re: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:02 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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Non bowling related comment.
Freedom1955, nice ring to that name!
Freedom Charter 1955 ...

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 Post subject: Re: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:19 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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I prefer to get the initial PAP from a ball with very low track flare, sanded to 500.
BTW, I have yet to see a bowler with a track variation that acually changed from high to low with different ball designs. ("high" being a large track, and "low" being a smaller track)
The likely cause of the track shift is either due to early flare creating a false initial PAP, or differences in the gripping holes and span causing you to release the ball differently.

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 Post subject: Re: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:30 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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If a customer has both a resin ball and a plastic ball drilled with the same fits I locate the PAP on the plastic ball, then check the location on the resin ball. The two locations are very seldom very different and it's a lot easier to see the tape on a non-flaring ball. -- JohnP


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 Post subject: Re: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:48 am Post Number: #9 Post
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snick wrote:
I prefer to get the initial PAP from a ball with very low track flare, sanded to 500.
BTW, I have yet to see a bowler with a track variation that acually changed from high to low with different ball designs. ("high" being a large track, and "low" being a smaller track)
The likely cause of the track shift is either due to early flare creating a false initial PAP, or differences in the gripping holes and span causing you to release the ball differently.

When I throw plastic or urethane my track is very high, on my plastic ball the initial track is about 1/4" from my middle finger hole and nearly touches my thumb hole. When I throw reactive resin my track is 2" from my middle finger and about the same from my thumb. Span,pitches same.
I can provide pictures of the balls and their track rings.
I'm going to have to try putting a piece of tape on my pap (acquired from my plastic ball) on one of my resin balls.
My pap is 5-3/16" over and 3/4" up.


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 Post subject: Re: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:13 am Post Number: #10 Post
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Be sure to have someone watch when you throw it. The tape will only appear stationary for a very short time on a flaring ball. The best way is to video it and watch in slow motion. -- John P


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 Post subject: Re: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:31 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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Here is an email I received fro Mo Pinel:

Mark,

You are correct. Due to the less dynamic nature of cores in plastic and urethane cores, they have a different PAP. Usually about 3/4" further away from rhe center of your grip. The gyroscopic nature of modern cores causes the difference. Use the PAP consistent with the type of ball you are drilling. This are minor variances in resin balls, but I use an average of the resin balls.

Thanks,
Mo Pinel


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 Post subject: Re: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:53 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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snick wrote:
I prefer to get the initial PAP from a ball with very low track flare, sanded to 500.
BTW, I have yet to see a bowler with a track variation that acually changed from high to low with different ball designs. ("high" being a large track, and "low" being a smaller track)
The likely cause of the track shift is either due to early flare creating a false initial PAP, or differences in the gripping holes and span causing you to release the ball differently.



If I am buying a new ball, how do I determine the PAP before the holes are drilled? Don't you have to throw the ball to determine my Unique Pap.


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 Post subject: Re: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:13 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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toscodav wrote:


If I am buying a new ball, how do I determine the PAP before the holes are drilled? Don't you have to throw the ball to determine my Unique Pap.


IF you are just starting out or changing from a conventional grip to a fingertip, then the PSO will most likely will just use a generic PAP location. Example: 5"over 1" up.

Then after you've bowled a while and developed a stable PAP of your own, then you'll measure it's location and use that for later drillings.

Now if you've been bowling with a fingertip for a while already then they can get the PAP location from it instead.

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 Post subject: Re: Finding PAP-with what type of ball?
 Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:44 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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When I deal with a customer who's getting a first ball I try to find a ball on the racks that fits him well enough to identify the PAP location. Sometimes I can let him use one of my balls. Same goes with the swap from conventional grip to fingertip except that if I can't find a fingertip ball he can use I have him use the conventional ball he has and only insert his fingers to the first joint. Anything measured is better than a guess. -- JohnP


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