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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:36 pm Post Number: #21 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:
Ok Eric, if I understand correctly you said from earlier posts and this one if I drill it 60x4x30 and just drill fingers deep enough to be legal for f/t weight then drill ring deeper for side weight that will keep reaction as described previously? Without the phole? Yes, without the weight hole, manipulating the depth of the fingers for static weights without making a Major change in ball reaction.

Also I noticed from your original arsenal suggestion that you said 60x4x30 w p-3 hole and after I gave you which ball this changed to p2. Is theirs a typo or intended change?

Intended Change, knowing that the Cg distance was not optimal for the P3.
The P2 is to make legal if you like the reaction or the option to drill the fingers deeper to add a P3 to make it stronger If that is what you want to do with it. It was for more balance hole options to dial the reaction in.

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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:53 pm Post Number: #22 Post
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Ok I gotcha. Thanks for bearing with me here. You are a trooper!!

Which ball with stronger cover would you suggest?

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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:13 pm Post Number: #23 Post
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I don't sell bowling balls so I try to stay away from making specific ball recommendations.

Staying within the Pyramid product line I would pick an Asymmetrical from their Pro Performance category and use a Midlane layout on it. This one you will definitely want Dull for the longer conditions.

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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:36 pm Post Number: #24 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
I don't sell bowling balls so I try to stay away from making specific ball recommendations.

Staying within the Pyramid product line I would pick an Asymmetrical from their Pro Performance category and use a Midlane layout on it. This one you will definitely want Dull for the longer conditions.



Ok sounds good. You have been so much help!! Thinking on a Force

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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:47 am Post Number: #25 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:

Same ball? What ball are you referring to?
What kind of reaction are you looking for?
I always start by figuring the Benchmark and working from there.

Benchmark 90* Total, 1.5:1 Ratio

Basic arsenal.....
Asymmetrical
Totally Strong ....... 45-4.5-25
Midlane ............... 35-4.25-35
Benchmark .......... 55-4.25-35
Long and Strong ... 75-4.25-35
Control ................ 55-3.75-55
low flare .............. 75-2.25-35

Symmetrical
Totally Strong ....... Double Thumb
Midlane ............... 60-4-30 balance hole 1.5" below midline on the VAL
Benchmark .......... 60-4-30 P3
Long and Strong ... 80-4-30
Control ................ Pin in the Ring Finger
low flare .............. 75-5-30


Eric
I have a question regarding how you come to my total sums starting point. I have read the article in wiki several times and if I do what I think I start at 95*. Take off 5* for slight speed dominance. So at 100* now. Then take off 10* for very low tilt and add 5* for high rotation so I come up with 95*.

Can you explain where I go wrong in this process please?

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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:46 pm Post Number: #26 Post
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erased because too hard to follow my thinking


Last edited by elgavachon on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:11 pm Post Number: #27 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:

Eric
I have a question regarding how you come to my total sums starting point. I have read the article in wiki several times and if I do what I think I start at 95*. Take off 5* for slight speed dominance. So at 100* now. (95* -5* =90*) Then take off 10* for very low tilt (add for low tilt not subtract) and add 5* for high rotation (subtract for high rotation not add) so I come up with 95*.

Can you explain where I go wrong in this process please?

High tilt and high rotation adds skid so you subtract total sums.


Last edited by elgavachon on Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:37 pm Post Number: #28 Post
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So you add for low tilt and subtract for high rotation then?

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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:45 pm Post Number: #29 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:
So you add for low tilt and subtract for high rotation then?

Yes


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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:56 pm Post Number: #30 Post
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That is also why you use lower ratios (Drilling angle to Val angle) for higher Tilt.
and lower ratios for higher rotation.

I am sure you have seen the chart in the Ratio Guide which uses this rational & gives an idea how much to change the ratios.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... atio_Guide
scroll down to see it.


Last edited by elgavachon on Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:00 pm Post Number: #31 Post
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So Eric has me at a 90 for benchmark. With my stats is that correct?

And at 1.5:1 ratio on benchmark

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Rotation-70*-90*


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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:01 pm Post Number: #32 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:
So Eric has me at a 90 for benchmark. With my stats is that correct?

And at 1.5:1 ratio on benchmark

Looks good to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:07 pm Post Number: #33 Post
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elgavachon wrote:
Looks good to me.



OK thank you. It's not that I didn't trust Eric, I would just like to be able to figure this out for other bowlers that I may be drilling for. Just started drilling within the last year and a half and learning something new every day. Thanks a lot for your input and help

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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:26 pm Post Number: #34 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:


OK thank you. It's not that I didn't trust Eric, I would just like to be able to figure this out for other bowlers that I may be drilling for. Just started drilling within the last year and a half and learning something new every day. Thanks a lot for your input and help

Eric is very good and very helpful. To see why he gave you the 1.5:1 ratio, go to the ratio chart and find 10* tilt in the middle column. He then moved 1 column to the right for higher rotation and then another column to the right for a combination of speed dominance and higher rotation. that shows 1.5:1. If you have balls with that ratio and they are too jumpy or hard to control (not on a house shot which requires your control layout ratios), then you could lower your ratios a little. If you find you do not have enough back end, you would raise a little. That is how you do it for the people you drill for.


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 Post subject: Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?
 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:42 pm Post Number: #35 Post
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elgavachon wrote:
Eric is very good and very helpful. To see why he gave you the 1.5:1 ratio, go to the ratio chart and find 10* tilt in the middle column. He then moved 1 column to the right for higher rotation and then another column to the right for a combination of speed dominance and higher rotation. that shows 1.5:1. If you have balls with that ratio and they are too jumpy or hard to control (not on a house shot which requires your control layout ratios), then you could lower your ratios a little. If you find you do not have enough back end, you would raise a little. That is how you do it for the people you drill for.


Ok sounds good. Thanks for your help. Believe it or not I understand the ratio chart more so than the total sums reasoning, but with everyone's help on bowlingchat I am starting to understand a lot more.

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Rotation-70*-90*


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