Radical cash surface

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Daves123
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Radical cash surface

Post by Daves123 »

I just got a new radical cash and it was drilled with layout A . I took it and threw on a fresh 40ft house shot and was somewhat disappointed in the reaction I got from the ball. This ball is maybe only a board stronger than my nighthawk stealth se. So my question is should I put a burgundy scotch brite pad to it to bring it to life? I boughtThis ball to be my go to ball in heavy oil.
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by EricHartwell »

Welcome to BowlingChat

What are your release specs?

Check out this link for the needed information...

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by Arkansas »

What part of the lane were you playing?
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by Daves123 »

Arkansas wrote:What part of the lane were you playing?
Between the 2nd and third arrow . Standing on 32 throwing over 13 bumping off 8
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by Daves123 »

EricHartwell wrote:Welcome to BowlingChat

What are your release specs?

Check out this link for the needed information...

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I don't have all the info you would like me to give you because I bowl in a 1950s brickyard with no modern technology.
I'm left handed stroker probably be concidered a higher speed bowler. As far as Rev rate probably med.
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by EricHartwell »

Ball strength is not properly gauged on how many boards you cover but how soon it starts to hook and how soon it will get into a roll. Stronger means earlier.

Stronger equipment will look weaker when there is not enough oil. Conversely weaker equipment will appear "stronger"' hook more on higher friction conditions.

What kind of lane surface are you bowling on? synthetic or wood?

Layout A, 50-4.5-40 P3, how large and deep is the balance hole?
Making the balance hole larger/deeper will also increase the reaction and give you more hook.

Adding more surface as you propose will make it hook earlier.

The factory surface is a pretty aggressive 500/1500. A shinier surface will give it more length and more angular backend reaction, a faster transition from hook to roll.
Eric Hartwell

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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by Dustin »

Did your pro shop operator mark your PAP on your other ball before drilling you the Cash?
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by Daves123 »

EricHartwell wrote:Ball strength is not properly gauged on how many boards you cover but how soon it starts to hook and how soon it will get into a roll. Stronger means earlier.

Stronger equipment will look weaker when there is not enough oil. Conversely weaker equipment will appear "stronger"' hook more on higher friction conditions.

What kind of lane surface are you bowling on? synthetic or wood?

Layout A, 50-4.5-40 P3, how large and deep is the balance hole?
Making the balance hole larger/deeper will also increase the reaction and give you more hook.

Adding more surface as you propose will make it hook earlier.

The factory surface is a pretty aggressive 500/1500. A shinier surface will give it more length and more angular backend reaction, a faster transition from hook to roll.
Wood lanes. I wasn't aware of synthetic lanes in the 50s
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by stevespo »

Daves123 wrote:I just got a new radical cash and it was drilled with layout A . I took it and threw on a fresh 40ft house shot and was somewhat disappointed in the reaction I got from the ball.
How does it go thru the pins? Are you leaving corner pins? What is your carry like?

One of the better/consistent bowlers (stroker/tweener) in our league started throwing a Cash with the A layout, and pulled me aside one night and asked me - "You throw Radical, why isn't my new Cash hooking more?"

I watched him throw a few shots and the motion (to me) looked great. Strike, strike, strike. Not covering a whole lot of boards, basically 12 (arrows) to 8/9 (breakpoint) on a 45' heavily walled house shot. Strong midlane read, with great continuation and every shot put 10 back.

I told him I thought it looked great, and he should throw it a few weeks before passing judgement. He's now put up 700+ every Thursday for a month. Last week I noticed he started leaving corners in the middle of game three, and he balled down and kept striking for another 720 series.

I joked afterwards that I'd be happy to take the ball off his hands, and he said that "No, this is a keeper." Once he adjusted his expectations on how much (and where) the ball should hook he's been thrilled with it. The rev dominant reviewers online kind of skew our thinking about these things.

Perhaps your lane surface, oil volume, release characteristics aren't well matched to the ball. Post a video and I'm sure people here can help you dial it in.

Steve
Last edited by stevespo on April 20th, 2017, 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by Arkansas »

Daves123 wrote: I don't have all the info you would like me to give you because I bowl in a 1950s brickyard with no modern technology.
I'm left handed stroker probably be concidered a higher speed bowler. As far as Rev rate probably med.
Are you more up the back of the ball or off the side of it?

It sounds like the ball is transitioning too fast and getting into a forward roll earlier than you're used to. Taking the surface higher or polishing will help delay the transition and provide more left to right "hook" if that's the case. Also, adding rotation by getting more off the side of the ball would probably help. Adding surface will only exacerbate the reaction you're not liking now. In retrospect and in the future you might want to stay away from high-end asyms with lots of surface if you're bowling on wood lanes. You probably would be much happier with a Ridiculous Pearl.
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by JohnP »

Wood lanes. I wasn't aware of synthetic lanes in the 50s
A lane can only be refinished so many times before the wood is cut down to the nails. Many of the old lanes from the 50's & 60's have had a synthetic overlay applied so they didn't have to be completely replaced. -- JohnP
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by LittleTiger »

Daves123 wrote:I just got a new radical cash and it was drilled with layout A . I took it and threw on a fresh 40ft house shot and was somewhat disappointed in the reaction I got from the ball. This ball is maybe only a board stronger than my nighthawk stealth se. So my question is should I put a burgundy scotch brite pad to it to bring it to life? I boughtThis ball to be my go to ball in heavy oil.
Radical Cash is much stronger than AMF Night Hawk Stealth SE. You can see comparisation graph on here.

You said that you bought that ball to playing on heavy oil where it is designed but now you are playing only 40ft long oil pattern so I would say that there is no enough oil for that ball.

Try play at least on 42ft long pattern or on oil pattern where total volume of oil is at least 25 ml.

EricHartwell wrote:Ball strength is not properly gauged on how many boards you cover but how soon it starts to hook and how soon it will get into a roll. Stronger means earlier.

Stronger equipment will look weaker when there is not enough oil. Conversely weaker equipment will appear "stronger"' hook more on higher friction conditions.
Yes. Here is good video which explains that:
[youtube][/youtube]

Arkansas wrote:In retrospect and in the future you might want to stay away from high-end asyms with lots of surface if you're bowling on wood lanes. You probably would be much happier with a Ridiculous Pearl.
Yes for this kind medium length/oil volume patterns Ridiculous Pearl would be better option especially if you are looking for skid/flip reaction.


Btw. Sometime ago Mo released this video on Facebook about versability of Cash but still remember that these only works when there is enough oil on lane:
https://www.facebook.com/radical.bowlin ... 790993624/
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by Daves123 »

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I can Tell this forum is over the head of this league type bowler.
I guess I'm still a little cofused that my nighthawk stealth se is just as strong on the same shot as the cash.
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by LittleTiger »

Yea, to be able understand all what we are discussion here you need just sometime and maybe learn some physics if you are not familiar with it.

But let's try make this simpler.
Do you have other balls than these two?

We would like see you on video throwing that Cash and some weaker ball to be able to better understand what is problem.
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by Daves123 »

Yes I own some other equipment i.e. lane 1 dynamo, nighthawk revenge, I Q tour, and a bunch of older balls that are cracked up. The ones that were my most favorite were the original nighthawk and a track enforcer.
As far as getting a video that may be a problem due to the fact I'm somewhat technology challenged and the bowling alley is only open for league play and Saturday evening. I'm talkin 50 s wood laid over dirt. Balls still come back on top and just a few years back we were still keeping score by hand. The other night the pair we were on one machine failed and we played all three on one lane. Foul lights don't work, but it's the only thing we got within a hours drive.
We do the best we can with what we have to work with.
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by LittleTiger »

Daves123 wrote:Yes I own some other equipment i.e. lane 1 dynamo, nighthawk revenge, I Q tour, and a bunch of older balls that are cracked up. The ones that were my most favorite were the original nighthawk and a track enforcer.
Ok. I was not able to find details of all these balls but here is something what I think that would be useful for you:
Image

Based on information what you have told I guess that Radical Cash has too strong coverstock and you probably would like something like Radical Ridiculous Pearl. Like you can see from that picture Ridiculous Pearl has more length and total hook than Night Hawk SE (which has probably bit more length than original nighthawk if I understood right which kind of that original nighthawk have been).

More length means that bowling ball will slide longer before it starts hook and that way it will store energy longer which will be useful on old wooden lanes where is friction than modern synthetic lanes. This was thing what I tried to explain with that video I posted earlier.

If you don't want buy new bowling ball then I would suggest that you ask pro shop operator polishing you Radical Cash. That will help it store energy longer.

Daves123 wrote:As far as getting a video that may be a problem due to the fact I'm somewhat technology challenged and the bowling alley is only open for league play and Saturday evening. I'm talkin 50 s wood laid over dirt. Balls still come back on top and just a few years back we were still keeping score by hand. The other night the pair we were on one machine failed and we played all three on one lane. Foul lights don't work, but it's the only thing we got within a hours drive.
We do the best we can with what we have to work with.
Ok. No worries. Then you just need do more experimentals what works but anyway I'm already quite sure that problem is that you ball looses energy too soon that why it does not hook enough.


Btw. There was another similar case on here if you are interested.
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by EricHartwell »

I am still interested in the balance hole, its size, depth and location.
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by Daves123 »

The balance hole is 7/8 dia and 2 3/4" deep . I'll try to upload a pic of the balls layout.
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Re: Radical cash surface

Post by Dustin »

Daves123 wrote:The balance hole is 7/8 dia and 2 3/4" deep . I'll try to upload a pic of the balls layout.
Without your PAP marked in the pic it will not tell the whole story.
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