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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:42 am Post Number: #41 Post
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ads wrote:
Longer PAP-PIN looks better for you, doesn't it?

My PAP is over 5". My Optimus Solid has a 3.5" PAP-PIN (next to RF). I guess, together with the coverstock strength (@4000 grit), the ball gives a smooth curve (lazy in my eye), instead of skid snap motion. Increased the MO from 3/4" to 7/8". More noticeable back-end and started to leave 9 pin and some messengers.

Worthwhile trying a 5" PAP-PIN and PIN over ring which is not the suggested layout for my spec?

It all depends on what I am looking for as far as what looks better for me.
The Nail with the 5" pin is the Strongest most Asymmetrical, fastest spin time, of what I have tried.

What I see is the pin to PAP matters. You have to look at what you are creating. You are making the ball Asymmetrical. How is the Asymmetrical layout with its pin to PAP going to match up with your release specs, specifically your tilt.

The Optimus has a goofy core, I would not consider it to be the best candidate for a Motion Hole. It is not Radially Symmetrical. The Optimus has too many voids making the MoHole a bit of a crapshoot for its effectiveness.

As far as using a 5" pin to PAP ball, I think with your specs it would be a good option for you.
Ball choice, I would start with a High differential ball, .050 or greater, with a more rounded shape core (cylindrical). You need to have enough flare to start with. I am not seeing alot of increase in flare with the Motion Holes.

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:26 pm Post Number: #42 Post
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I have recently drilled a ball for an intended motion hole. It is 16lbs and I drilled it purposely to have a small amount of negative side weight and small amount of finger weight. The reason I did this was because on a previous ball I mo holed I was limited on size of hole because of static weights.

The balls reaction without the motion hole is strange. Will the negetive side weight have an effect on ball motion?

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PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:43 pm Post Number: #43 Post
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Static weight does not have an effect on the ball motion.

What ball and layout did you use?

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
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12* tilt
330 rev rate
15 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:50 pm Post Number: #44 Post
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It is a Pathogen X. The same ball I have previously motion holed. A friend threw mine and loved it. So I drilled one for him. Same layouts(pin next to ring) except one is 16 and other 14lb and 16 has a turbo sg thumb and other does not.

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Rotation-70*-90*


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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:36 am Post Number: #45 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:
The balls reaction without the motion hole is strange.

What do you mean by "strange"?

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Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
15 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:53 am Post Number: #46 Post
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Honestly I’m not quite sure. It seems like it never revs up. It may just be operator error. Just does not seem to cover the amount of boards that the first one did without the hole.

I am sure it is hard to understand what I mean without video. I am just going to put the motion hole in and cross my fingers!

Thanks Eric

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:02 am Post Number: #47 Post
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I would tend to believe it was the lane condition. Unless you are doing a side by side comparison on the same condition it is difficult to compare reactions.

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Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
15 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:53 am Post Number: #48 Post
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Kindoff is sameconditions. Both were on our Wednesday night league at same house on same shot. But I get what you mean it’s not apples to apples comparison.

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:47 am Post Number: #49 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
I now have 3 balls Motion Holed...

Hammer Nail 5" pin to PAP ............... Motion Hole 1 1/8" x 4"
Hammer Viral Pin in the ring finger .... Motion Hole 1" x 4"
Blue Hammer 3" pin to PAP .............. Motion hole 7/8 "x 4"

The Hammer Nail spin time 5.1 sec, a 3.1 sec improvement and the Drilling angle decreased 8*.
It is serving me well both shiny and dull. Shiny it is working well on a broken down 42" house shot. It is my go to ball at this house when I am bowling inside of 3rd arrow. Dull it is an absolute monster and was too strong for anything other than a fresh condition. I have been trying it on several different conditions in my sport league as well as house shots. I start on 44' London pattern this week. Just put a fresh dull surface, green scotch brite 6 sides, in preparation for it. Will report back on how it preforms on the longer pattern.

The Hammer Viral (spin time 7.5 sec.) started out very skid snappy without the hole. Shiny surface of any kind gave me a very angular hook zone and lots of 9 pin leaves on pocket hits. Dull surface helped but made it lazy in the pocket, lots of flat 10 pins. After the MoHole shiny surface is completely out of the question. It is ridiculously long and angular making it extremely difficult to control. After the hole And dull surface (800-1500) it is giving me an excellent look. It is what I consider to be a Benchmark type reaction and not burning up early.
Nobody believes it is only a 13# ball. In actuality it isn't, weighing only 12# 14 oz. with 2.75 oz top weight. It hits like a truck and throwing lots of messengers
It is the first ball out of my bag for THS.

The Blue Hammer (spin time 8.1 sec) This is an interesting one. Base layout 80-3-45, 4000 grit surface skid snap type reaction. Another ball leaving lots of 9 pins for me. Dull surface (800 grit) improved the carry but took the length away forcing me to play deeper inside the oil line than I would like with urethane taking away my margin for error.
Here is the interesting part, after the MoHole the ball got smoother/weaker. I wish I could have spun it up on the DeTerminator prior to drilling the MoHole. I believe this is due to the Pin to PAP, 3". I was afraid to make the MoHole any larger and killing the reaction any further.
It gives me the best look in my arsenal for short oil sport patterns with it dull (800 grit). Keeping the ball clean was a chore. Using both a leather shammy and by using an approved ball cleaner to keep my reaction and not create carry down.
I am keeping this one at 4000 grit and it is my go to ball for high friction conditions.

With the lack of Asymmetrical choices at 13#'s I will definitely be considering more Motion Hole "experiments" as I fill in a couple of holes in my arsenal.

I am getting to the point where I will not be considering them "experiments."

Added a 4th Motion Hole to the arsenal, 13# Brunswick Edge Pearl Base layout 80-3-40

Well, it is still an experiment. Darn generic light weight cores.

Motion Hole 1 1/8" x 3 3/4" 2.75 oz top weight
The Motion hole barely knicked the core and no noticeable change in ball motion. PSA and spin time, 6.2 sec was unchanged.
But...
When the ball hit the pocket it did Not respect the 3lb 6oz pins at all. It was finishing to the Left of the 8 pin. No deflection at all. In one game of use I left two 4-9 splits, and three 9 pins. The ball was making a left turn while it was going through the pins. In conclusion, it is definitely possible to go to Big with a Motion Hole. I kept making it larger looking for the length, never got the length but the mechanical leverage in the pocket kept getting stronger to the point of to Strong.

I am going to plug and relocate/pitch the Motion Hole to hit more core making sure it is a full 4" in depth. To accommodate this I will need to drill the ring finger deeper. I will also be removing the Switchgrip thumb to drill it deeper as well to remove more core material.

I am hopeful that the drilling of the ring and thumb deeper and relocating the MoHole will create the Asymmetry I am looking for.

Update:
relocated the Motion hole, the whole bit hit it but only for 1/4", still barely hitting the core, 7/8" x 4" top weight 1.5 oz
Ring finger 3 1/2" deep
Middle finger 2 3/4" deep
Was able to drill through the bottom of the switchgrip thumb with 7/8" bit to 4" deep

PSA moved from 3/4" left of the centerline to bottom edge of thumb hole on the centerline, a reduction of 5* on the drilling angle. Flare was reduced and the Spin time increased 1 sec to 7.2 sec. Ball motion was smoothed out and it hooked less. I rolled 2 games with it and only left one 9 pin.

This "experiment" was tp produce a ball down from the Viral. I think it is mission accomplished.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
15 mph off hand


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