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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:01 pm Post Number: #21 Post
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I motion holed a Rack Attack Solid, and was very happy with the results. This has always been a good ball for me on broken down house conditions, but nothing to write home about. After the motion hole, I used it on a fresh Kegel Gateway Arch (recreation 1:6.58) and I could play straight up 7-8 and destroy the pocket. The move off the breakpoint was strong and the carry was fantastic.

I started with a 3/4" x 4" deep hole, and may increase that a little and see how it does on my higher volume, higher ratio, broken down THS tonight.

elgavachon's advice was perfect. Before drilling, I had 0.6oz finger weight and 0.4oz side, so I shifted the hole slightly off my track and pitched it toward the heavy quadrant. After drilling, it came in at 0.3/0.3oz, so plenty of room to work with. Also, no significant change on the Determinator. 12.24s before, and 12.1s after drilling. 7 runs and drop the high/low.

Attachment:
rack-attack-motion.jpg


Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:02 am Post Number: #22 Post
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I Motion Holed a Hammer Nail .055 diff Base layout 75-5-40 Pin above the bridge. It is a low flare. My carry percentage is not so good when I play inside with more rotation. Lots of ringing 10's, solid 8's. With higher rotation it just didn't get into a roll. Still trying to hook in the pocket and deflecting.
I have 2 of these balls one solid and one pearl. The Nail is the pearl. 4000 grit with plenty of lane shine.

Motion Hole 7/8"x4"

I utilized pitch in the MoHole to maintain static weight, ended with 1 oz top, 1/2 oz side and 1/8 oz finger. There is room to make it larger. There was only a slight increase in the track flare, not as much as I expected.

It now skids longer and turns over quicker. With low rotation it is giving me a hook stop motion. Definitely a more angular hook zone. Right now I like the length I'm getting.
Once I got lined up with it, the ball was consistently driving through the pocket with a couple of shots finishing through the 8 pin. I had room to move further left. Small sample of bowling but no 10 pins, time will tell.

I am wondering what could I expect from making the hole larger.
I would expect to see more flare as the asymmetry increases.
I'm thinking the 5" pin to PAP will make it loose tilt/rotation faster and roll forward even quicker.
Will this result in less boards covered making it more like a sport layout, for playing a straighter line?

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:50 am Post Number: #23 Post
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I think the larger hole will increase length and backend, as long as you dont overdue it. Then you might get length, and more length

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:41 pm Post Number: #24 Post
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stevespo wrote:
I motion holed a Rack Attack Solid, and was very happy with the results. This has always been a good ball for me on broken down house conditions, but nothing to write home about. After the motion hole, I used it on a fresh Kegel Gateway Arch (recreation 1:6.58) and I could play straight up 7-8 and destroy the pocket. The move off the breakpoint was strong and the carry was fantastic.

I started with a 3/4" x 4" deep hole, and may increase that a little and see how it does on my higher volume, higher ratio, broken down THS tonight.

elgavachon's advice was perfect. Before drilling, I had 0.6oz finger weight and 0.4oz side, so I shifted the hole slightly off my track and pitched it toward the heavy quadrant. After drilling, it came in at 0.3/0.3oz, so plenty of room to work with. Also, no significant change on the Determinator. 12.24s before, and 12.1s after drilling. 7 runs and drop the high/low.

Attachment:
rack-attack-motion.jpg


Steve


Hi Steve,

"so I shifted the hole slightly off my track and pitched it toward the heavy quadrant."

Not quite understand what you have done to re-locate the hole from the suggested position, i.e., line extended from thumb hole to pin and 10 inches from the pin at the bottom of the ball.

Also, why you pick 4 PIN-PAP and 70* VAL angle?

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:24 pm Post Number: #25 Post
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ads wrote:
"so I shifted the hole slightly off my track and pitched it toward the heavy quadrant."

Not quite understand what you have done to re-locate the hole from the suggested position, i.e., line extended from thumb hole to pin and 10 inches from the pin at the bottom of the ball.

Also, why you pick 4 PIN-PAP and 70* VAL angle?


I've edited my photo to show this better.

Attachment:
rack-attack-motion-2.jpg


The original hole location was really close to the track, so I shifted it away from the pin by 1/2". Rather than being 10" from the pin, it is now 10.5"

I pitched the hole left 3/4" in order to remove weight from the heavy (finger/side) quadrant. This was to minimize the change in static weight.

When I laid this ball out, I was not paying attention to drill angle or VAL. I was thinking Motion Hole, so I wanted the CG in the palm, just below the midline. I used a 4" pin to PAP, because I wanted it in a medium/high flaring position (with the weak core and cover). Even in that position there's maybe 2" of track flare.

I didn't have a specific purpose/condition for this ball, so I didn't have a particular layout in mind. Just an experiment. The short pin to CG meant I'd have to do something pin down if I wanted to Motion Hole it later.

Also, note that when laying out the Motion Hole, I used the PSA off the determinator rather than the center of the thumb hole. They're slightly different, but not sure it matters much for this use case.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:33 pm Post Number: #26 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
I Motion Holed a Hammer Nail .055 diff Base layout 75-5-40 Pin above the bridge. It is a low flare. My carry percentage is not so good when I play inside with more rotation. Lots of ringing 10's, solid 8's. With higher rotation it just didn't get into a roll. Still trying to hook in the pocket and deflecting.
I have 2 of these balls one solid and one pearl. The Nail is the pearl. 4000 grit with plenty of lane shine.

Motion Hole 7/8"x4"

I utilized pitch in the MoHole to maintain static weight, ended with 1 oz top, 1/2 oz side and 1/8 oz finger. There is room to make it larger. There was only a slight increase in the track flare, not as much as I expected.

It now skids longer and turns over quicker. With low rotation it is giving me a hook stop motion. Definitely a more angular hook zone. Right now I like the length I'm getting.
Once I got lined up with it, the ball was consistently driving through the pocket with a couple of shots finishing through the 8 pin. I had room to move further left. Small sample of bowling but no 10 pins, time will tell.

I am wondering what could I expect from making the hole larger.
I would expect to see more flare as the asymmetry increases.
I'm thinking the 5" pin to PAP will make it loose tilt/rotation faster and roll forward even quicker.
Will this result in less boards covered making it more like a sport layout, for playing a straighter line?


I experienced some of the same as you did Eric. I took an original Yeti and did a 80*(PAP-pin-PSA)x4.50"x40* with 23/32"x3.75" deep MOtion Hole. With my normal release and 45* to 60* axis rotation I saw less continuation and more deflection. With more forward roll and less axis rotation say around 30* then the MOtion holed Yeti came to life and I saw what I was expecting way more continuation and very few 10 pins.


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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:15 pm Post Number: #27 Post
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Update: I went back and opened the MoHole to 1". Found that I wanted more length. Flare increased, length increased and it did not get noticeably more angular. Was only able to use it for a few practice frames. Still need more time with it. I am only bowling 1 THS league and I couldn't see starting inside 3rd arrow on light oil. It is definitely a deep inside line ball where it used to work well playing more to the outside of the lanes but carry suffered when I got deeper than 3rd arrow. Still no need for a dull surface. I need to get to a different house and try it out on some heavier oil.

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:48 am Post Number: #28 Post
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I have also tried one motion hole but was pretty unhappy when done. The ball is 2.54 RG with diff of .032 pearl reactive cover.
Layout is 105x3.25x48ish. Pin beside ring as suggested by Mo on radical drill sheet with PAP 5" or more over.
Ball reaction was ok without motion hole. I decided I wanted to get more so drilled motion hole...big mistake. Went 31/32x4" deep just left of suggested position per radical drill sheet(to miss my initial track flare) and ball lost all its hook. Has nothing now!

Is there something I did wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:53 am Post Number: #29 Post
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What is your stats? Also did you add surface after drilling the motion hole? Personally have not tried any lower diff. equipment yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:14 am Post Number: #30 Post
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PAP 5 1/16" over 3/4" up
16 mph monitor
300-325 rev
10-12* tilt
70-90* rotation

Only thrown once in practice after hole. And yes I did add surface. Hit with 2000 by hand at the lanes and made very little difference. Was polished 2000 before.

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:48 pm Post Number: #31 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:
PAP 5 1/16" over 3/4" up
16 mph monitor
300-325 rev
10-12* tilt
70-90* rotation

Only thrown once in practice after hole. And yes I did add surface. Hit with 2000 by hand at the lanes and made very little difference. Was polished 2000 before.


Speed dominate with high rotation is probably not the best type of bowler to be using the motion hole. With your specs I would try 360 or 500 on the surface, 2000 is not that much surface.

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:08 pm Post Number: #32 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:
I have also tried one motion hole but was pretty unhappy when done. The ball is 2.54 RG with diff of .032 pearl reactive cover.
Layout is 105x3.25x48ish. Pin beside ring as suggested by Mo on radical drill sheet with PAP 5" or more over.
Ball reaction was ok without motion hole. I decided I wanted to get more so drilled motion hole...big mistake. Went 31/32x4" deep just left of suggested position per radical drill sheet(to miss my initial track flare) and ball lost all its hook. Has nothing now!

Is there something I did wrong?

Probably not. Pictures would help. The motion hole retains tilt (which as others have pointed out, is not what you are after). If the lane was longer, you would probably see hook.


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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:40 pm Post Number: #33 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:
I have also tried one motion hole but was pretty unhappy when done. The ball is 2.54 RG with diff of .032 pearl reactive cover.
Layout is 105x3.25x48ish. Pin beside ring as suggested by Mo on radical drill sheet with PAP 5" or more over.
Ball reaction was ok without motion hole. I decided I wanted to get more so drilled motion hole...big mistake. Went 31/32x4" deep just left of suggested position per radical drill sheet(to miss my initial track flare) and ball lost all its hook. Has nothing now!

Is there something I did wrong?

What ball did you Motion hole?

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:53 pm Post Number: #34 Post
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Pyramid Pathogen X
Why is that relevant ?

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:23 pm Post Number: #35 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:
Pyramid Pathogen X
Why is that relevant ?

I was curious as to what the core shape was. There are some cores out there that are not good candidates for the MoHole. The Pathogen X has a radially Symmetric core and is a good candidate. So that isn't the issue.

Realize what you have done here. You took a lower flare Symmetrical ball with a strong pin position on a skid snap pearl coverstock and turned it into a lower flare Asymmetrical ball with a weaker pin position.

With your release specs you will need to find friction for this ball to perform well for you.
If the lanes are not producing enough friction, as stated above a lower grit surface like 500 grit will help make it more usable for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:32 pm Post Number: #36 Post
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Thanks Eric
I appreciate the information you have given. It will be very helpful to me as I am new to ball drilling and like to take in as much as I can. Learned everything that think I know you n this site and other reading. Makes sense now. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:25 pm Post Number: #37 Post
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Dustin wrote:

Speed dominate with high rotation is probably not the best type of bowler to be using the motion hole. With your specs I would try 360 or 500 on the surface, 2000 is not that much surface.



I finally got a chance to put some surface on the Pathogen x with mohole. Works much better now. Thanks for the suggestion.

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:59 pm Post Number: #38 Post
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Until last night, I hadn't used my motion holed Rack Attack solid in a while.

Threw a few practice games after league. The condition was pretty spotty. Hit the ball with a used 2000 pad and really liked the way it was shaping up, smooth and controllable, but with a strong move off the breakpoint. In my old center, I felt like it had lost that "pop" after I enlarged the balance hole, but the surface seemed to really help.

As long as I was deep enough for a decent skid phase (between 3rd and 4th arrow) the ball was amazing. Very clean and forgiving. I could use medium speed and still be aggressive with the release and the ball was well mannered. Shots I thought were a little bit right, still snapped out the 10 pin.

Will test on a fresh condition, so this might become a more regular piece for me. Certainly as a transition ball or on a broken down condition it looked great.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:45 pm Post Number: #39 Post
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I now have 3 balls Motion Holed...

Hammer Nail 5" pin to PAP ............... Motion Hole 1 1/8" x 4"
Hammer Viral Pin in the ring finger .... Motion Hole 1" x 4"
Blue Hammer 3" pin to PAP .............. Motion hole 7/8 "x 4"

The Hammer Nail spin time 5.1 sec, a 3.1 sec improvement and the Drilling angle decreased 8*.
It is serving me well both shiny and dull. Shiny it is working well on a broken down 42" house shot. It is my go to ball at this house when I am bowling inside of 3rd arrow. Dull it is an absolute monster and was too strong for anything other than a fresh condition. I have been trying it on several different conditions in my sport league as well as house shots. I start on 44' London pattern this week. Just put a fresh dull surface, green scotch brite 6 sides, in preparation for it. Will report back on how it preforms on the longer pattern.

The Hammer Viral (spin time 7.5 sec.) started out very skid snappy without the hole. Shiny surface of any kind gave me a very angular hook zone and lots of 9 pin leaves on pocket hits. Dull surface helped but made it lazy in the pocket, lots of flat 10 pins. After the MoHole shiny surface is completely out of the question. It is ridiculously long and angular making it extremely difficult to control. After the hole And dull surface (800-1500) it is giving me an excellent look. It is what I consider to be a Benchmark type reaction and not burning up early.
Nobody believes it is only a 13# ball. In actuality it isn't, weighing only 12# 14 oz. with 2.75 oz top weight. It hits like a truck and throwing lots of messengers
It is the first ball out of my bag for THS.

The Blue Hammer (spin time 8.1 sec) This is an interesting one. Base layout 80-3-45, 4000 grit surface skid snap type reaction. Another ball leaving lots of 9 pins for me. Dull surface (800 grit) improved the carry but took the length away forcing me to play deeper inside the oil line than I would like with urethane taking away my margin for error.
Here is the interesting part, after the MoHole the ball got smoother/weaker. I wish I could have spun it up on the DeTerminator prior to drilling the MoHole. I believe this is due to the Pin to PAP, 3". I was afraid to make the MoHole any larger and killing the reaction any further.
It gives me the best look in my arsenal for short oil sport patterns with it dull (800 grit). Keeping the ball clean was a chore. Using both a leather shammy and by using an approved ball cleaner to keep my reaction and not create carry down.
I am keeping this one at 4000 grit and it is my go to ball for high friction conditions.

With the lack of Asymmetrical choices at 13#'s I will definitely be considering more Motion Hole "experiments" as I fill in a couple of holes in my arsenal.

I am getting to the point where I will not be considering them "experiments."

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 Post subject: Re: Motion hole experiments
 Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:12 am Post Number: #40 Post
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Longer PAP-PIN looks better for you, doesn't it?

My PAP is over 5". My Optimus Solid has a 3.5" PAP-PIN (next to RF). I guess, together with the coverstock strength (@4000 grit), the ball gives a smooth curve (lazy in my eye), instead of skid snap motion. Increased the MO from 3/4" to 7/8". More noticeable back-end and started to leave 9 pin and some messengers.

Worthwhile trying a 5" PAP-PIN and PIN over ring which is not the suggested layout for my spec?

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