What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku do

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brood915
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What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku do

Post by brood915 »

Hello. I see that both Osku and Belmonte position their sliding feet parallel to the boards and then rotate their body while walking to the left on their 3rd and 4th step to throw to the right.

https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowlin ... d-players/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I recently bumped into this Slowinski's article, and he particularly says this right below a pic of Belmonte's approach:
After an initial cause and effect sequence analysis with this player, several potential physical game inefficiencies emerged. Specifically, the assessment revealed that the set up position was impacting the swing line and hand position negatively, impacting the downswing, release, and follow through.

His set up had his hips nearly parallel to the lane rather than the intended target line. As a result, as he transitioned from step three to four (of five), he over-rotated quickly from being off-line closed to off-line open. This affected both his hand and elbow position (swing) negatively at the top of the swing.

In order to complete the shot, he had to rotate his hips back during the downswing leading to an over-rotation of the left shoulder with the forearm facing off line into the release. This reduced the efficiency of energy transfer to the ball as well as changed the launch angle. Moreover, it was causing a twisting effect on his knee, jeopardizing the longevity of his bowling career.
I am a little bit confused by this...
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Re: What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku

Post by TonyPR »

You can try sending him a private message, his user name is BowlingCoach

The quote you refer to is not speaking about Belmonte, it is not related to the photo, it talks about one of his students. Basically what he is saying is that the student started with shoulders and hips parallel to the foul line then exageratedly opened up on steps 3 and 4 and as an effect of this exageratedly closed again at delivery causing over rotation of his shoulders and it doesn't say this but I suspect he ended up pulling shots left (if he is a righty).
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Re: What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku

Post by brood915 »

TonyPR wrote:You can try sending him a private message, his user name is BowlingCoach

The quote you refer to is not speaking about Belmonte, it is not related to the photo, it talks about one of his students. Basically what he is saying is that the student started with shoulders and hips parallel to the foul line then exageratedly opened up on steps 3 and 4 and as an effect of this exageratedly closed again at delivery causing over rotation of his shoulders and it doesn't say this but I suspect he ended up pulling shots left (if he is a righty).
Well, doesnt Belmonte set up his hips and sliding foot parallel to the boards too? He always walks left and then rotates his hips and upper body on steps 3 and 4.
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Re: What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku

Post by spmcgivern »

I think Belmonte does open his hips and shoulders in his set up. Check out this:

Image

In this sequence, Belmonte starts with his left foot pointing in the area of his target (or at least not parallel to the lane) and his right foot is behind his left and angled to the right. This foot position will automatically open the hips also. And the way Belmonte hold his ball puts his left shoulder in front of his right shoulder and he maintains this position throughout his approach until he releases the ball. There may be a small moment where the left shoulder and the right shoulder are even at the extent of his "pushaway."
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Re: What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku

Post by brood915 »

spmcgivern wrote:I think Belmonte does open his hips and shoulders in his set up. Check out this:

Image

In this sequence, Belmonte starts with his left foot pointing in the area of his target (or at least not parallel to the lane) and his right foot is behind his left and angled to the right. This foot position will automatically open the hips also. And the way Belmonte hold his ball puts his left shoulder in front of his right shoulder and he maintains this position throughout his approach until he releases the ball. There may be a small moment where the left shoulder and the right shoulder are even at the extent of his "pushaway."
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He actually puts his sliding foot parallel to the board on stance.
When he starts from board 35, he usually walks 5~10 boards to the left on steps 3 and 4 and then slide back to board 35. But when he slides back to where he was, his sliding foot is parallel to the target line.
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Re: What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku

Post by TonyPR »

Yea but his hips and shoulders are aligned to his target. There are many different styles of two handers, for example: Kyle Troup and Jepser Svenson prefer to play straighter, Shawn Maldonado and Brian Valenta really open up, especially Maldonado. When learning, figure out what works and feels natural for you, there's more than one way to skin a cat.
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Re: What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku

Post by spmcgivern »

brood915,

I would also look at the age of that video (uploaded 2010) and figure Belmonte has probably changed somewhat. The physiological side of bowling has been extensively studied recently allowing the top bowlers to fine tune aspects of their games. These changes allow them to be more consistent and exert less energy/force to the ball allowing them to be more competitive in longer format tournaments.

These physiological changes is what separates many of the better pros from the occasionally successful regional pro. There are many bowlers with the talent to be great, but it is the fine tuning that allows them to be consistently good.
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Re: What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku

Post by Qman »

I don't think Slowinski could throw it 2 handed with the same results. Try and tell a 2 hander to drop his damn shoulder and see what happens.
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Re: What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku

Post by TonyPR »

As two handers we drop our shoulder at the push away to add lateral spine tilt, at address it's also dropped a little, this keeps the ball under our head. When I release the ball, my follow through goes in front of my face, to do this efficiently I must remember my shoulder starts at my neck.
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Re: What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku

Post by Dustin »

Not a 2 handed bowler and not even sure if this helps but Jim Merrell has a very good video in the wiki.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... y_elements
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Re: What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku

Post by TonyPR »

Dustin that is one of the most complete if not the most complete video analysis of the two handed approach. Whenever I get a kid who asks me about learning to bowl two handed I tell them to watch that video. Jim, I wish that someday you will have the time to make a part two, maybe go a bit more in depth on the technique and then contrast the different two handers and their differences.
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Re: What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku

Post by spr3wr »

Qman wrote:I don't think Slowinski could throw it 2 handed with the same results. Try and tell a 2 hander to drop his damn shoulder and see what happens.
Are you saying that 2 handers should not drop his/her shoulder? Of all bowlers they ( 2 handers ) are going to drop at least 1.

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Re: What Slowinski says goes against what Belmonte and Osku

Post by BowlingCoach »

Image.

The goal of an open set-up position, as I recommend, is to reduce unnecessary movement from set-up to top of the swing trunk rotation.

Also see. https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/btmcon ... bdA4GH.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image. By opening the ball-side foot at 30degrees and just behind the half-way point, the hips will open automatically and also be a catalyst for a natural open position of the torso. This establishes a pre-set position which leads to a reduced inefficiency of movement form the start to the top of the swing as well as ensure the ball-side shoulder is always behind the non-bowling arm shoulder. In regard to drop your damn shoulder, let Osku answer. Image
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