ball/lane surface contact vs speed rev rate

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deadpin6
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ball/lane surface contact vs speed rev rate

Post by deadpin6 »

Call it to much time on one's hand with nothing better to do.  But I got curious on how much of a balls circumference contacts the lane vs.ones rev rate based on the chart in wiki.


I have looked back through the threads but didn't find anything on the subject and or unless I've missed it in wiki or one of the forum topics


The example I used was 300 @ 17 mph

And came up with a ratio of .212 or approx. 10 inches of ball surface per foot of lane traveled. 


Would this estamitate be a correct calculation?
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Re: ball/lane surface contact vs speed rev rate

Post by MWhite »

deadpin6 wrote:Call it to much time on one's hand with nothing better to do.  But I got curious on how much of a balls circumference contacts the lane vs.ones rev rate based on the chart in wiki.


I have looked back through the threads but didn't find anything on the subject and or unless I've missed it in wiki or one of the forum topics


The example I used was 300 @ 17 mph

And came up with a ratio of .212 or approx. 10 inches of ball surface per foot of lane traveled. 


Would this estamitate be a correct calculation?
feet of ball surface per foot of ball travel.

feet = Rev Rate*3/80*COS(Tilt)/(Speed*22/15)

For a ball with rev rate 300, tilt of 0 degrees, speed of 17 mph, will result in 0.436 feet of ball surface use for each foot of ball travel.

3/80 = 27 inch circumference / 12 inches per foot / 60 seconds per minute

22/15 = 5280 feet per mile / 60 minutes per hour / 60 seconds per minute
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spmcgivern
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Re: ball/lane surface contact vs speed rev rate

Post by spmcgivern »

This is based on initial release. Once the ball encounters friction, then the initial release numbers change along with the amount of ball per foot. But for the sake of arguments here, that appears good.
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Re: ball/lane surface contact vs speed rev rate

Post by snick »

I created an axis tilt chart with values for arc, chord, tilt angle, and track length.
http://byrographics.com/bowling/Axis-Tilt.pdf
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2y2
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Re: ball/lane surface contact vs speed rev rate

Post by 2y2 »

I don't think It is as simple, for example, MWhite's formula states that if there was no rotation there would be no friction and that's completely false, in the formula a zero value of rev rate would make zero surface therefore zero friction. Besides we have to consider many factors: axis tilt gives you an estimate at the release point, but track flare rings are not equal to each other, so yes, the contact length between ball and lane changes with tilt, but it is not a constant number, now, have you considered axis rotation, what changes if you throw with no rotation and all revs compared to say 45° rotation on the same shot, same ball, same speed, etc. We have like two distances, one is the distance that the ball travels on the lane and the other one is the total distance of the oil over the ball due revoutions, don't foget, the ball skids and the more revs, the more skid will be so even though it is a good idea to consider contact area, it is not a simple calculation.
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Re: ball/lane surface contact vs speed rev rate

Post by MWhite »

2y2 wrote:I don't think It is as simple, for example, MWhite's formula states that if there was no rotation there would be no friction and that's completely false, in the formula a zero value of rev rate would make zero surface therefore zero friction. Besides we have to consider many factors: axis tilt gives you an estimate at the release point, but track flare rings are not equal to each other, so yes, the contact length between ball and lane changes with tilt, but it is not a constant number, now, have you considered axis rotation, what changes if you throw with no rotation and all revs compared to say 45° rotation on the same shot, same ball, same speed, etc. We have like two distances, one is the distance that the ball travels on the lane and the other one is the total distance of the oil over the ball due revoutions, don't foget, the ball skids and the more revs, the more skid will be so even though it is a good idea to consider contact area, it is not a simple calculation.

The formula produces an instantaneous rate.

As the ball travels down the lane, the parameters most likely will change.

To get total surface area to ball motion, you need to integrate the rate at whatever time step you feel comfortable with.

in relation to the idea of zero friction, the only way a ball could maintain the same amount of rev rate (zero or whatever) would be if there was zero force from friction..

Remember

Torque = (moment of inertia) * (angular acceleration).
Force = (mass) * (acceleration)

If there is no angular acceleration, then there must be no torque.
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Re: ball/lane surface contact vs speed rev rate

Post by Qman »

MWhite wrote:

The formula produces an instantaneous rate.

As the ball travels down the lane, the parameters most likely will change.

To get total surface area to ball motion, you need to integrate the rate at whatever time step you feel comfortable with.

in relation to the idea of zero friction, the only way a ball could maintain the same amount of rev rate (zero or whatever) would be if there was zero force from friction..

Remember

Torque = (moment of inertia) * (angular acceleration).
Force = (mass) * (acceleration)

If there is no angular acceleration, then there must be no torque.
Why not just just use the skid hook roll phase? Wouldn't you be able to adjust of of that alone? Why get so technical? :roll:
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