Need some clarification.
In the pdf dual_angle_ratio_guide it gives an example of an arsenal.
1. Is this formula for sym? or asym?
2. If it isn't universal, what is the adj for sym vs asym?
3. Does anyone know of a better way to do this than my xls?
4. From the pdf here is what I have for the formula, Can you validate ? Did I miss something?
Assumptions benchmark =90* total sum, 1.25:1 ratio, 20* variance, .50 ratio variance
layout ............... Sum modification........... ratio modification.............drill*......Val *
Totally strong ..... subtract 20* (70*)......... add .50 to ratio (1.75:1)......45*......25*
Midlane ............. subtract 20* (70*)......... sub .50 to ratio (0.75:1)......30*......40*
Benchmark ........ do nothing (90*)............ do nothing to ratio (1.25:1)..50*......40*
Long and Strong .. add 20* (110*)............. add .50 to ratio (1.75:1)......70*......40*
Control ............... add 20* (110*)............. sub .50 to ratio (0.75:1)......45*......65*
5. When deciding on pin lengths for the arsenal above. What is the best way to decide that?
6. If we say the benchmark pin length is 4", is there a rule of thumb to adjust it, should we?
Thanks again!!!
help with basic arsenal formula
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- Posts: 34
- Joined: April 4th, 2016, 3:15 am
- Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 0
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help with basic arsenal formula
___________________________
Right handed
PAP 5 3/4 x 0
Speed: 19mph off hand
Rev Rate: 305
Axis Rotation: 55*
Axis Tilt: 17*
Right handed
PAP 5 3/4 x 0
Speed: 19mph off hand
Rev Rate: 305
Axis Rotation: 55*
Axis Tilt: 17*
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: help with basic arsenal formula
Much easier to read
edit for dyslexia
Comments and adjustments in color abovejspfeffer wrote:Need some clarification.
In the pdf dual_angle_ratio_guide it gives an example of an arsenal.
1. Is this formula for sym? or asym? Asym
2. If it isn't universal, what is the adj for sym vs asym? Drilling Angle +5* VAL Angle -5* Example: Asym 50-4-30 Sym 55-4-25
3. Does anyone know of a better way to do this than my xls?
4. From the pdf here is what I have for the formula, Can you validate ? Did I miss something?
Assumptions benchmark =90* total sum, 1.25:1 ratio, 20* variance, .50 ratio variance
layout ............... Sum modification........... ratio modification.............drill*......Val *
Totally strong ..... subtract 20* (70*)......... add .50 to ratio (1.75:1)......45*......25*
Midlane ............. subtract 20* (70*)......... sub .50 to ratio (1:1.25)......30*......40*
Benchmark ........ do nothing (90*)............ do nothing to ratio (1.25:1)..50*......40*
Long and Strong .. add 20* (110*)............. add .50 to ratio (1.75:1)......70*......40*
Control ............... add 20* (110*)............. sub .50 to ratio (1:1.25)......45*......65*
Changes your Ratios in color. This is the reason we were getting different layouts at the Control and Midlane layouts from your other post.
5. When deciding on pin lengths for the arsenal above. What is the best way to decide that?
Tilt management. Using shorter pin to PAP will burn Tilt/RotationSlower Longer pin to PAP burns Tilt/Rotation faster. Another factor would be if you want high flare or low flare positions. You would also consider the total differential of the ball when considering the flare management.
6. If we say the benchmark pin length is 4", is there a rule of thumb to adjust it, should we?
Again it is a balance of the bowlers Tilt/Rotation and yes I make adjustments all the time from the 4" starting point.
Thanks again!!!
edit for dyslexia
Last edited by EricHartwell on June 24th, 2016, 11:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 34
- Joined: April 4th, 2016, 3:15 am
- Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 0
- Speed: 19 off hand
- Rev Rate: 305
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 55
- Preferred Company: hammer
Re: help with basic arsenal formula
Hi Eric,
Thanks for the help...
I guess I am still a little confused...
According to the dual_angle_ratio_guide
"
For a totally strong layout, you would subtract the 20º and add the 0.5 ratio.
For a mid-lane layout, you would subtract the 20º and subtract the 0.5 ratio.
For a long and strong layout, you would add the 20º and add the 0.5 ratio.
For a control layout, you would add the 20º and subtract the 0.5 ratio."
In the example in the pdf the left side of the ratio was always modified.
I am sorry if I just don't get it.. in yours it seems like on the add you always add to the left side
on the sub you split it and apply .25 to each side?
Is that what you are doing? Is there a newer guide.
I am struggling to read the pdf and apply it to your version?
Mine
Assumptions benchmark =90* total sum, 1.25:1 ratio, 20* variance, .50 ratio variance
layout ............... Sum modification........... ratio modification.............drill*......Val *
Totally strong ..... subtract 20* (70*)......... add .50 to ratio (1.75:1)......45*......25*
Midlane ............. subtract 20* (70*)......... sub .50 to ratio (0.75:1)......30*......40*
Benchmark ........ do nothing (90*)............ do nothing to ratio (1.25:1)..50*......40*
Long and Strong .. add 20* (110*)............. add .50 to ratio (1.75:1)......70*......40*
Control ............... add 20* (110*)............. sub .50 to ratio (0.75:1)......45*......65*
yours
Assumptions benchmark =90* total sum, 1.25:1 ratio, 20* variance, .50 ratio variance
layout ............... Sum modification........... ratio modification.............drill*......Val *
Totally strong ..... subtract 20* (70*)......... add .50 to ratio (1.75:1)......
Midlane ............. subtract 20* (70*)......... sub .50 to ratio (1:1.25)......
Benchmark ........ do nothing (90*)............ do nothing to ratio (1.25:1)
Long and Strong .. add 20* (110*)............. add .50 to ratio (1.75:1)
Control ............... add 20* (110*)............. sub .50 to ratio (1:1.25)
Thanks
Thanks for the help...
I guess I am still a little confused...
According to the dual_angle_ratio_guide
"
For a totally strong layout, you would subtract the 20º and add the 0.5 ratio.
For a mid-lane layout, you would subtract the 20º and subtract the 0.5 ratio.
For a long and strong layout, you would add the 20º and add the 0.5 ratio.
For a control layout, you would add the 20º and subtract the 0.5 ratio."
In the example in the pdf the left side of the ratio was always modified.
I am sorry if I just don't get it.. in yours it seems like on the add you always add to the left side
on the sub you split it and apply .25 to each side?
Is that what you are doing? Is there a newer guide.
I am struggling to read the pdf and apply it to your version?
Mine
Assumptions benchmark =90* total sum, 1.25:1 ratio, 20* variance, .50 ratio variance
layout ............... Sum modification........... ratio modification.............drill*......Val *
Totally strong ..... subtract 20* (70*)......... add .50 to ratio (1.75:1)......45*......25*
Midlane ............. subtract 20* (70*)......... sub .50 to ratio (0.75:1)......30*......40*
Benchmark ........ do nothing (90*)............ do nothing to ratio (1.25:1)..50*......40*
Long and Strong .. add 20* (110*)............. add .50 to ratio (1.75:1)......70*......40*
Control ............... add 20* (110*)............. sub .50 to ratio (0.75:1)......45*......65*
yours
Assumptions benchmark =90* total sum, 1.25:1 ratio, 20* variance, .50 ratio variance
layout ............... Sum modification........... ratio modification.............drill*......Val *
Totally strong ..... subtract 20* (70*)......... add .50 to ratio (1.75:1)......
Midlane ............. subtract 20* (70*)......... sub .50 to ratio (1:1.25)......
Benchmark ........ do nothing (90*)............ do nothing to ratio (1.25:1)
Long and Strong .. add 20* (110*)............. add .50 to ratio (1.75:1)
Control ............... add 20* (110*)............. sub .50 to ratio (1:1.25)
Thanks
___________________________
Right handed
PAP 5 3/4 x 0
Speed: 19mph off hand
Rev Rate: 305
Axis Rotation: 55*
Axis Tilt: 17*
Right handed
PAP 5 3/4 x 0
Speed: 19mph off hand
Rev Rate: 305
Axis Rotation: 55*
Axis Tilt: 17*
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: help with basic arsenal formula
Look at the Dual Angle Ratio Guide. the 1:1 ratio is in the middle Moving away from that middle ground doesnt put you in a Ratio that has a number less than 1.
For example 1:1 Ratio +.5 = 1.5:1 Making the ratio higher
now Subtract .5 = 1:1.5 making the ratio Lower
More examples
2:1 higher ratio
1:2 lower ratio
1.25:1 ratio is .5 higher than 1:1.25 Ratio
ways to check your answers
Layout
40-4-30 40/30=1.25 which relates to 1.25:1 Ratio
70/2.25=31.1 rounded to 30 70-30=40
The Ratio is Drilling Angle:VAL Angle
I hope this helps
I wish I was a Math Teacher to better explain Ratios.
For example 1:1 Ratio +.5 = 1.5:1 Making the ratio higher
now Subtract .5 = 1:1.5 making the ratio Lower
More examples
2:1 higher ratio
1:2 lower ratio
1.25:1 ratio is .5 higher than 1:1.25 Ratio
ways to check your answers
Layout
40-4-30 40/30=1.25 which relates to 1.25:1 Ratio
70/2.25=31.1 rounded to 30 70-30=40
The Ratio is Drilling Angle:VAL Angle
I hope this helps
I wish I was a Math Teacher to better explain Ratios.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
- deanchamp
- Trusted Source
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- Joined: August 4th, 2010, 10:23 am
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- Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: help with basic arsenal formula
Hi Eric, you might want to revise this statement from post #2 above:
5. When deciding on pin lengths for the arsenal above. What is the best way to decide that?
Tilt management. Using shorter pin to PAP will burn Tilt/Rotation faster. Longer pin to PAP burns Tilt/Rotation faster.
5. When deciding on pin lengths for the arsenal above. What is the best way to decide that?
Tilt management. Using shorter pin to PAP will burn Tilt/Rotation faster. Longer pin to PAP burns Tilt/Rotation faster.
USBC Silver Level Coach
BCU Graduate - Mastery of Layouts
BTM contributor
BCU Graduate - Mastery of Layouts
BTM contributor
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- Member
- Posts: 34
- Joined: April 4th, 2016, 3:15 am
- Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 0
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- Rev Rate: 305
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 55
- Preferred Company: hammer
Re: help with basic arsenal formula
Hi Eric,
I think I get what you are saying.. a ratio is a ratio etc.. I guess the reason I thought a ratio was ok to be less than 1 was this line in the guide.
"Please note: On ratios less than 1:1, Mo sometimes expresses ratios with the val angle reduced to :1 example: 1:1.25 would be expressed as .8:1 (.8:1=1:1.25, etc.)"
Thanks again
I think I get what you are saying.. a ratio is a ratio etc.. I guess the reason I thought a ratio was ok to be less than 1 was this line in the guide.
"Please note: On ratios less than 1:1, Mo sometimes expresses ratios with the val angle reduced to :1 example: 1:1.25 would be expressed as .8:1 (.8:1=1:1.25, etc.)"
Thanks again
___________________________
Right handed
PAP 5 3/4 x 0
Speed: 19mph off hand
Rev Rate: 305
Axis Rotation: 55*
Axis Tilt: 17*
Right handed
PAP 5 3/4 x 0
Speed: 19mph off hand
Rev Rate: 305
Axis Rotation: 55*
Axis Tilt: 17*
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: help with basic arsenal formula
There is my dyslexia again Yeah Ill fix thatdeanchamp wrote:Hi Eric, you might want to revise this statement from post #2 above:
5. When deciding on pin lengths for the arsenal above. What is the best way to decide that?
Tilt management. Using shorter pin to PAP will burn Tilt/Rotation faster. Longer pin to PAP burns Tilt/Rotation faster.
Im glad somebody is keeping an eye on me
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand