More RGs

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kidlost2000
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More RGs

Post by kidlost2000 »

Saw an Ebointe vid for a green ball and it had more RGs. lol

The main reason for this is about Higher RGs

Why do most companies in general, and many bowlers/proshop personal ect shy away from higher RG bowling balls?


In a day where so many more bowlers have above average revs and covers are so strong, why do you want the balls RG to make it just rev up so much more?

I just drilled a NIB Track Synergy ETS.(RG 2.63 Dif .070) Tried it out and the ball is still amazing as the first one I drilled back in 1997. Great length with plenty of energy/revs on the backend with a great finish through the pins. My pap is 5.5" straight across. Pin is 5" from my pap about 1.25" below my ring finger near the center gripline. CG in the palm, and no weight hole.


I have a Brunsiwck Kick Zone also , pin above bridge (just over 5.5" from pap)with cg in the palm and no weight hole. This ball also has a higher RG core(RG 2.59ish) that works amazing with the pearl hybrid cover. Very strong ball on the backends.


Would a higher RG core not be great for higher rev bowlers and many of todays stronger covers?
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Re: More RGs

Post by Adrenaline »

kidlost2000 wrote:Would a higher RG core not be great for higher rev bowlers and many of todays stronger covers?
Let someone smarter give you a more scientific answer, but in my opinion, guys with higher revs, don't need more energy in the back end, or they run into over/under. Spin those revs up, and use the RG to force the ball down the lane, as soon as it starts to change direction, it's going to be so drastic they'll never be able to control it.
Just my opinion.
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Re: More RGs

Post by kidlost2000 »

Right, but with todays covers you don't need the ball reving out of your hand and losing energy so early. Esepcially with some of the super soaker covers. Many people get more use out of their midline and lower line gear then anything high performance. So thats why I was wonderin with some of the covers available would it not work better to have the ball retain more energy for down lane.
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Re: More RGs

Post by Mo Pinel »

kidlost2000 wrote:Saw an Ebointe vid for a green ball and it had more RGs. lol

The main reason for this is about Higher RGs

Why do most companies in general, and many bowlers/proshop personal ect shy away from higher RG bowling balls?


In a day where so many more bowlers have above average revs and covers are so strong, why do you want the balls RG to make it just rev up so much more?

I just drilled a NIB Track Synergy ETS.(RG 2.63 Dif .070) Tried it out and the ball is still amazing as the first one I drilled back in 1997. Great length with plenty of energy/revs on the backend with a great finish through the pins. My pap is 5.5" straight across. Pin is 5" from my pap about 1.25" below my ring finger near the center gripline. CG in the palm, and no weight hole.


I have a Brunsiwck Kick Zone also , pin above bridge (just over 5.5" from pap)with cg in the palm and no weight hole. This ball also has a higher RG core(RG 2.59ish) that works amazing with the pearl hybrid cover. Very strong ball on the backends.


Would a higher RG core not be great for higher rev bowlers and many of todays stronger covers?

RGs are not as important as you think when compared to diff. ratio and total diff. It is true that higher (not more) RG balls delay transitions, but adjusting surface texture will accomplish the same thing. With more synthetic lanes and slicker oils, most bowlers need balls to transition faster to carry. That's just my experience. Last time I checked, I had a lot of that.
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Re: More RGs

Post by kidlost2000 »

True surface is a lot of the equation. When you have something pearlized with a low RG core say 2.47 and a Dif .050 doesn't that give you a cover made for length and a ball made to rev up early? For a high rev player on medium to lighter oil the length will not be there. There is a lot of talk about newer oils and slicker conditions but most forums people are complaining about there not being enough oil. Especially when you have ten people on a pair throwing new equipment. Currently the biggest selling equipment is the hook monsters, yet when you go to most league most people aren't using them. Most higher rev players are throwing the weaker equipment.
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Re: More RGs

Post by Mo Pinel »

kidlost2000 wrote:True surface is a lot of the equation. When you have something pearlized with a low RG core say 2.47 and a Dif .050 doesn't that give you a cover made for length and a ball made to rev up early? For a high rev player on medium to lighter oil the length will not be there. There is a lot of talk about newer oils and slicker conditions but most forums people are complaining about there not being enough oil. Especially when you have ten people on a pair throwing new equipment. Currently the biggest selling equipment is the hook monsters, yet when you go to most league most people aren't using them. Most higher rev players are throwing the weaker equipment.
Proper use of layouts can get you ALL the length you need as long as the cover's not too strong. That's how I feel and it's OK for us to disagree on this. Remember what I said about the importance of factors.

1) cover
2) diff. ratio
3) total diff.
4) RGs

I've done the research and that order isn't going to change. I'd love to do it in person for you and prove my point.
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Re: More RGs

Post by kidlost2000 »

It would probably easier in person then typing.

Could you elaborate more on diff ratios and total diffs? Or post a link, I imagine its been discuessed a lot already.

Or if you could use an example with two bowling balls if they used the same medium to aggressive cover and one had specs of

example

higher RG like RG 2.62 Diff (of any to work for this example)
and lower RG like RG 2.49 Diff (of any same as above)

How they would compare when drilled the same or how you would alter the drilling to get a similar reaction?

Thank you for the time
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Re: More RGs

Post by Mo Pinel »

kidlost2000 wrote:It would probably easier in person then typing.

Could you elaborate more on diff ratios and total diffs? Or post a link, I imagine its been discuessed a lot already.

Or if you could use an example with two bowling balls if they used the same medium to aggressive cover and one had specs of

example

higher RG like RG 2.62 Diff (of any to work for this example)
and lower RG like RG 2.49 Diff (of any same as above)

How they would compare when drilled the same or how you would alter the drilling to get a similar reaction?

Thank you for the time
OK guys! Please let him know where that info is on these forums. Thanks.
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Re: More RGs

Post by 3YearsAndCounting »

Check out the Rip/R video with Jack Jurek on the Morich Web Site.
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Re: More RGs

Post by Mo Pinel »

3YearsAndCounting wrote:Check out the Rip/R video with Jack Jurek on the Morich Web Site.
Thanks!
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Re: More RGs

Post by kidlost2000 »

Good vid, the info I was looking for was on diff ratios and total diffs. What they mean and their effect on the ball.

Trying to see and learn the effects of

2) diff. ratio
3) total diff.
4) RGs
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Re: More RGs

Post by kellytehuna »

I can't be bothered looking up posts for that, so I'll just repeat the answers here! LOL!

We all know from bowling ball marketing literature, the Low RG value, Total RG Differential and if the ball is asymmetric out of the box, the Intermediate RG and/or Intermediate Differential. From these values we can determine everything we need to know.

For this discussion we're only interested in:
  1. Total differential
  2. Differential Ratios
  3. RG
Total differential is the difference between the High RG and Low RG (High RG - Low RG). Simple right? So what does it tell us? Total diff. gives us an indications of the undrilled balls flare potential. The higher the number, the more flare the ball is capable of. Since flare directly relates to how much fresh ball surface the lane see's, it's clear to see why this is high on the list.

Differential Ratio is Intermediate Differential / Total Differential. Intermediate Differential, like Total Differential, is the difference between the High RG and Intermediate RG and is a measure of how quick the ball responds to friction. The higher the value, the quicker the response, the more defined and angular the break point.

RG values give us an indication of the balls resistance to change in angular velocity (spin). The higher the value, the more resistant the ball is to change.

There is, however, a spanner in the works - the values of the undrilled ball mean very little! We can and do manipulate those values when we layout the ball. Stronger layouts tend to increase the diffs and the diff ratios, while weaker layouts tend to reduce them. Know what all those numbers mean, however, give you at least a starting point and help you in making ball selection choices.

MAN that's a lot to digest! LOL! I hope that helps. As always, correct me if I've missed anything or messed something up.
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Re: More RGs

Post by kidlost2000 »

Perfect. That is some great stuff to know.

So if you know the RG and the Diff can you find the high RG and low RG of the ball or would you need to get it from the manufacture?

Brunswick usually gives a Min and a Max RG but wasn't sure if that was the same thing.


Would like to figure this out to play with some different numbers of bowling balls new and old.
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Re: More RGs

Post by kellytehuna »

kidlost2000 wrote:Perfect. That is some great stuff to know.

So if you know the RG and the Diff can you find the high RG and low RG of the ball or would you need to get it from the manufacture?

Brunswick usually gives a Min and a Max RG but wasn't sure if that was the same thing.


Would like to figure this out to play with some different numbers of bowling balls new and old.
Yes, indeed! From Low RG, Total Diff and Intermediate Diff, we can determine the missing information.

To use the RipR's specs as example, straight off http://morichbowling.com:
  • Low RG: 2.545"
  • Total diff: 0.042"
  • Asymmetrical, or Intermediate diff: 0.013"
From we can determine the following: (New info in bold yellow)
  • Low RG: 2.545"
  • High RG: 2.587" (Low RG + Total diff)
  • Intermediate RG: 2.574" (High RG - Intermediate Diff)
  • Total diff: 0.042"
  • Asymmetrical, or Intermediate diff: 0.013"
  • Diff ratio: 0.31 (Intermediate diff / Total diff)
Unless otherwise stated, we're usually given the Low RG. Brunswick is one of the few that lists High (Max), Low (Min) and Intermediate (Asym) RG values, as well the Total Differential and the Intermediate Differential (Asym Diff).
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Re: More RGs

Post by kidlost2000 »

Awesome thank you.
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Re: More RGs

Post by MathIsTruth »

kellytehuna wrote: There is, however, a spanner in the works - the values of the undrilled ball mean very little! We can and do manipulate those values when we layout the ball. Stronger layouts tend to increase the diffs and the diff ratios, while weaker layouts tend to reduce them. Know what all those numbers mean, however, give you at least a starting point and help you in making ball selection choices.
This is an important point to emphasize and keep in mind. The undrilled ball specs will change depending upon the layout chosen. An example of changes that occur for various drillings and balance holes for the MoRich RipR can be found in "Mo's Recommended Layouts".
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... dedLayouts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: More RGs

Post by Mo Pinel »

kellytehuna wrote:I can't be bothered looking up posts for that, so I'll just repeat the answers here! LOL!

We all know from bowling ball marketing literature, the Low RG value, Total RG Differential and if the ball is asymmetric out of the box, the Intermediate RG and/or Intermediate Differential. From these values we can determine everything we need to know.

For this discussion we're only interested in:
  1. Total differential
  2. Differential Ratios
  3. RG
Total differential is the difference between the High RG and Low RG (High RG - Low RG). Simple right? So what does it tell us? Total diff. gives us an indications of the undrilled balls flare potential. The higher the number, the more flare the ball is capable of. Since flare directly relates to how much fresh ball surface the lane see's, it's clear to see why this is high on the list.

Differential Ratio is Intermediate Differential / Total Differential. Intermediate Differential, like Total Differential, is the difference between the High RG and Intermediate RG and is a measure of how quick the ball responds to friction. The higher the value, the quicker the response, the more defined and angular the break point.

RG values give us an indication of the balls resistance to change in angular velocity (spin). The higher the value, the more resistant the ball is to change.

There is, however, a spanner in the works - the values of the undrilled ball mean very little! We can and do manipulate those values when we layout the ball. Stronger layouts tend to increase the diffs and the diff ratios, while weaker layouts tend to reduce them. Know what all those numbers mean, however, give you at least a starting point and help you in making ball selection choices.

MAN that's a lot to digest! LOL! I hope that helps. As always, correct me if I've missed anything or messed something up.
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Re: More RGs

Post by Mo Pinel »

MathIsTruth wrote: This is an important point to emphasize and keep in mind. The undrilled ball specs will change depending upon the layout chosen. An example of changes that occur for various drillings and balance holes for the MoRich RipR can be found in "Mo's Recommended Layouts".
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... dedLayouts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
About time you got back on bowlingchat. You're expertise is missed when you're not here. I need your unique perspective.
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Re: More RGs

Post by kidlost2000 »

I understand the RG changes when the ball is drilled and can increase or decrease. This is why I wanted to learn more about what was listed as more important factors the Total differential, and Differential Ratios.

My intital point was that with todays bowling equipment so aggressive and many complaing about not enough oil why more companies didn't make slightly higher RG cores to go with todays aggressive covers. Since they react slower to change they would be less likly to over react in the front of the lanes and have more energy for down lane.
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Re: More RGs

Post by Mo Pinel »

kidlost2000 wrote:I understand the RG changes when the ball is drilled and can increase or decrease. This is why I wanted to learn more about what was listed as more important factors the Total differential, and Differential Ratios.

My intital point was that with todays bowling equipment so aggressive and many complaing about not enough oil why more companies didn't make slightly higher RG cores to go with todays aggressive covers. Since they react slower to change they would be less likly to over react in the front of the lanes and have more energy for down lane.
RGs are relatively unimportant. Today's balls are easily used to create all motions by the effective use of drilling techniques and the proper selection of the ball to be drilled. I don't run into the problem you are talking about. Education is the answer to your concern.
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