My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by stevespo »

TonyPR wrote:So what you are saying is that you did 1/4" MF and 5/8" RF laterals on the ACL/CLT/25* line etc... Not on the centerline, you only used the centerline for your spans and to layout the ball. Correct?
Yes, that is exactly what I did. When I drilled the finger holes, I turned the ball in the jig and lined everything up to the ACL/25* line and then did the standard pitches from the wikifit. Technically, I could probably use a bit more reverse in the fingers (based on my thumb reverse) but the laterals are right off the fan chart for C (24 degrees, I think). When I measure that angle on the ball itself, it does seem to be a few degrees less than the paper (22 vs 25), but that's so close IMO that I am just using 25 as a good ballpark.

As far as the fingers go, I only used the centerline for span and to layout fingers/thumb relative to the DA/VAL/PAP. On one ball I drilled the thumb relative to the centerline, and on the other I drilled relative to the adjusted thumb/ring finger line. That line effectively shifts the thumb pitch forward a bit, but doesn't do much to the lateral. To me, the one with more reverse feels better, but I can't tell if that's due to the reverse or the oval. I should stick to changing one variable at a time, but it's a time consuming approach.

I've re-read Snick's posts on the scissoring effect on the fingers, but I'm still not sure what's happening. For my way of thinking, 1/4" reverse on the fingers will always be 1/4" reverse, RELATIVE to the 25* ACL line. My pitch gauge it telling me the same thing. Sure, it's going to be a little wonky compared to the centerline, but with the hand aligned to the ACL, the fingers are 1/4" reverse relative to the ACL. Yes?

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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by bowl1820 »

2y2 wrote:TonyPR,

What I'm saying is that you don't even need the peace of paper, you can lay your hand on any ball and follow exactly Slowinski's adt procedure on it, just need to trace the lines on the ball and measure with the pro-sect just as you would in the described method. Much as the process in Mo's CLT method.
I don't have the ADT info other than what I was reading here, So maybe I can't really comment here But I had try this. I'm assuming your talking about the thumb to finger line like he showed in the video.

Doing it on the paper, I had a 22° angle.

Doing it on a ball, I had a 31° angle.

I tried it a couple of times to double check, So about 8° to 10° difference between the two. That looks like it would make a big difference in how your figuring it alright!
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by snick »

The illustration below is a view 90º to the finger ACL plane.
The finger holes in the illustration are more or less side-by-side on the T-grip line. However, they are offset by 1/2" on the ACL and clearly not pointed in the same direction relative to each other (i.e.: parallel) along that angle, even though they are both technically pointing toward the same 0 plane at the center of the ball.
The pitches can be normalized to account for this, but the root of the issue is that the span measurements are not rotated ~25º to the true hand position, so the relationship between the finger holes is altered.

A simple solution would be to measure the spans along the ACL, so the finger holes will have the natural offset of the finger joints, rather than an offset that is an arbitrary byproduct of the layout technique.

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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by ads »

Snick,

No sure if this is related. My feel of span is shorter with ADT. Has to increase MF by 1/16 and RF by 3/32.
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by snick »

Middle finger span is 1/8" too long on the ADT fit depicted below.
Markup on the ball is where my finger holes should be.
I know why this happened and I've adjusted my specs to prevent this from occurring again.

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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by stevespo »

I agree that the span feels a little shorter with the ADT, particularly on the ring finger - but not a lot for me. Might go 1/16" longer next time on that finger.
I was already using a fair amount of left/reverse thumb pitch, with my hand oriented much like ADT - so it might be less of a change than for some people.

The BTM website website has a good ADT article for subscribers, but it doesn't cover all the measurement details.
If you're interested in trying this technique a lot has been covered here (and in the videos), but I would definitely recommend spending the $12.95 to get the original writeup from Coach Slowinski. The background info and rationale is definitely worth reading through.

Slowinski ADT PayPal purchase

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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by TonyPR »

Just got mine drilled and gotta give thanks to my coach/driller Mike for having the patience to lay it out and drill it. Mine came out with a 25* angle after I drew it a couple of times on paper to verify if it was consistent.
MF: 3 15/16", 1/4" Reverse
RF: 4 1/16", 1/2" Reverse
Thumb: 1/8" Forward, 5/8" Left
Finger Laterals: went with 3/8" both as a starting point.
Used fake vaccum vise ovals on this one

Bowled 2 games, ball felt very, very comfortable, easy to release, no hang ups, feels like palming the ball. Particulary very easy to throw straight at the 6-10, the feeling of palming gives a great sense of control plus it is very natural to stay behind the ball and roll it.

Slight rubbing on outside (left) corner of thumb nail and adjacent skin. No biggie but I need to bowl more games to see if it is an issue.

Besides this, I don't feel any need to tweak finger pitches (linears nor laterals). Spans are also very comfortable.

Will report back after more games.
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by ads »

TonyPR wrote:
Bowled 2 games, ball felt very, very comfortable, easy to release, no hang ups, feels like palming the ball. Particulary very easy to throw straight at the 6-10, the feeling of palming gives a great sense of control plus it is very natural to stay behind the ball and roll it.

Slight rubbing on outside (left) corner of thumb nail and adjacent skin.
No biggie but I need to bowl more games to see if it is an issue.

I have similar issue but only the left corner tip of the finger nail (RH). My driller said adding 1/16 reverse to thumb pitch will resolve it.

Do you have the feeling that the span is "shorter"?
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by TonyPR »

No, didn't really feel like the span is shorter, feels the same to me. Now the way the ball sits on the hand is very different.

When you say 1/16" reverse adjustment for rubbing, is it off the center line or the ring finger to thumb line?
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by ads »

TonyPR wrote:No, didn't really feel like the span is shorter, feels the same to me. Now the way the ball sits on the hand is very different.

When you say 1/16" reverse adjustment for rubbing, is it off the center line or the ring finger to thumb line?
I have re-drilled 3 balls with ADT. The first one has "shorter" span feel but the release is clean. Increase mf by 1/16 and rf by 3/32, then a bit of rubbing.

The 1/16 reverse is based on ring finger to thumb line - same line to drill the away pitch. Will try with another ball.
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by snick »

Some additional information from Slowinski on facebook:

If you are NOT using finger inserts, the thumb ACL should be aligned with the right edge of the ring finger hole instead of the center.

The "Reversse Finger Pitches" chart should be used to measure your fingers in the following manner:
"The fingers should be measured with the second joint at 90 degrees, parallel with the back of the hand. This reveals the true flexibility of the first joint."
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by ads »

snick wrote:Some additional information from Slowinski on facebook:

If you are NOT using finger inserts, the thumb ACL should be aligned with the right edge of the ring finger hole instead of the center.

The "Reversse Finger Pitches" chart should be used to measure your fingers in the following manner:
"The fingers should be measured with the second joint at 90 degrees, parallel with the back of the hand. This reveals the true flexibility of the first joint."
Which "Reverse Finger Pitches" chart?
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by JohnP »

If the second joint is at 90* it's perpendicular to the back of the hand. To be parallel it would have to be at 180*. -- JohnP
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

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He sent out an addendum that included the pitch chart and thumb lateral measuring technique.

Yeah, the wording of his instruction could be better. He means that the base knuckle should be straight (in line with the back of the hand), the second knuckle bent 90º, and the first knuckle bent as far as it will go.
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by TonyPR »

What if for example one finger measures at 1/4" Reverse and the other measures at 1/2" Reverse?
Do you drill them like this or do you do both at 1/2" Reverse to have the same pitch on the two fingers?
I have heard both schools of thought...
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by ads »

snick wrote:He sent out an addendum that included the pitch chart and thumb lateral measuring technique.

Yeah, the wording of his instruction could be better. He means that the base knuckle should be straight (in line with the back of the hand), the second knuckle bent 90º, and the first knuckle bent as far as it will go.
Addendum? Is it the file named "Anatomical_Drilling_Method_Starting_Pitches.pdf", 3 pages in total?
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

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yes, that's the file.
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

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snick wrote:He sent out an addendum that included the pitch chart and thumb lateral measuring technique.

Yeah, the wording of his instruction could be better. He means that the base knuckle should be straight (in line with the back of the hand), the second knuckle bent 90º, and the first knuckle bent as far as it will go.
Thanks Snick for the details.

I tried both methods, the wiki and ADT. The result is similar. My MF (first joint) can bent 90* while RF bents less than 90* (less flex).

One thing about VISE power lift insert which I am using now. The proshop guy told me that this insert automatically adds forward pitch to the finger because the inner wall slants toward the inside of the ball. So my real finger reverse should -1/8 to 3/16. Is it true?
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by snick »

Most drillers will probably tell you that the pitch at the center of the hole defines the pitch for that finger.
personally, I feel that the angle of the gripping edge defines the pitch the bowler perceives.
So my answer would be yes, you'd have to consider the angle of the inner wall of the insert as a part of the pitch specification for that hole.
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Re: My review of Joe Slowinski's Anatomic Drilling Technique

Post by russelldean »

Tried this today. couple notes. When drawing the adjusted bridge lines pay attention. Bridges will be wider going in a straight line towards thumb. Pay attention when ovaling. You can shorten span, if not ovaling in the proper direction. Oval ring towards bridge, and middle away from bridge. Ball comes off hand a little quicker for me. I assume this is because of the secondary line drawn from ring finger for thumb. In essence increasing oval angle for quicker release. Grip definitely requires me to exit ball differently to clear. Will have to double check, but may have increased tilt. I will have to test this for a bit, and decide if I will keep it or not. One things for sure, I can not switch back and forth from grips with ease.
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