Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
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- Mongo
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Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
How do units convert to mL when looking at pattern sheets?
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
Basically they don't. Units of oil should not be confused with volume of oil.Mongo wrote:How do units convert to mL when looking at pattern sheets?
Units are a measurement based upon the ultra violet additive that is in lane oil. The UV additive allows the optical lane reader to “see” the oil and measure how thick it is.
A "unit" of oil is defined by the American Bowling Congress (ABC) and Women's International Bowling Congress (WIBC) as 0.0167 cubic centimeters of oil evenly spread over a 1 sq. ft. surface, which equates to a film of oil about 7 millionths of an inch thick.
Example: a piece of typing paper is about 400 units thick.
(.000007*400=.0028" A 16# bond paper is .0032" thick so that's pretty close.)
Depending on how the mL of oil is spread on the lane, the units could almost anything.
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
Can anybody put this to the WIKI please!!!!!bowl1820 wrote: Basically they don't. Units of oil should not be confused with volume of oil.
Units are a measurement based upon the ultra violet additive that is in lane oil. The UV additive allows the optical lane reader to “see” the oil and measure how thick it is.
A "unit" of oil is defined by the American Bowling Congress (ABC) and Women's International Bowling Congress (WIBC) as 0.0167 cubic centimeters of oil evenly spread over a 1 sq. ft. surface, which equates to a film of oil about 7 millionths of an inch thick.
Example: a piece of typing paper is about 400 units thick.
(.000007*400=.0028" A 16# bond paper is .0032" thick so that's pretty close.)
Depending on how the mL of oil is spread on the lane, the units could almost anything.
Ducati what else?
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- Mongo
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
Thank you, sir.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
- rrb6699
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
isnt that jow to translate units to ml?
rr
rr
Tweenr-RH
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
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300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
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- LabRat
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
Well yeah, but I can see what bowl1820 means - because the number of units varies per board across and down lane it is very difficult to calculate the total volume of oil from units of oil. One ml of oil on a foot of lane is about 20 units edge to edge, so 40 units THS in the middle. If you know the ratio, lengthwise taper and pattern length you can get an idea of the units of oil in the different parts of the lane though.rrb6699 wrote:isnt that jow to translate units to ml?
rr
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
OK, let's test this. Total pattern length - 36'LabRat wrote: Well yeah, but I can see what bowl1820 means - because the number of units varies per board across and down lane it is very difficult to calculate the total volume of oil from units of oil. One ml of oil on a foot of lane is about 20 units edge to edge, so 40 units THS in the middle. If you know the ratio, lengthwise taper and pattern length you can get an idea of the units of oil in the different parts of the lane though.
Zone 1 - (1-7 feet) Avg. of 68 units, 1.2:1 ratio
Zone 2 - (7-12 feet) Avg of 49 units, 1.5:1 ratio
Zone 3 - (12-20 feet) Avg of 25 units - 2.4:1 ratio
Zone 4 - (20-25 feet) Avg of 14 units - 3.1:1 ratio
Zone 5 - (25-32 feet) Avg of 11 units - 2.9:1 ratio
Buff to 36'
So, what volume can we guess at here?
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
Zone 1 6'x3.5'x68 units/60units/ml/sq ft = 23.8ml.
Zone 2 14.3 ml
zone 3 11.7 ml
zone 4 4.1 ml
zone 5 4.5 ml.
Total 58.4 ml, which obviously is not going to be correct.
Zone 2 14.3 ml
zone 3 11.7 ml
zone 4 4.1 ml
zone 5 4.5 ml.
Total 58.4 ml, which obviously is not going to be correct.
Chemistry is like cooking - just don't lick the spoon.
- Mongo
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
That's about the number I came up with. They are touting a "heavy oil" condition, so that may not be far off. So much up front, will be interesting to see how it plays at that length.LabRat wrote:Zone 1 6'x3.5'x68 units/60units/ml/sq ft = 23.8ml.
Zone 2 14.3 ml
zone 3 11.7 ml
zone 4 4.1 ml
zone 5 4.5 ml.
Total 58.4 ml, which obviously is not going to be correct.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
If you assume that the 'average' is the average of the heavy oil part of the lane (which would make it a 6:1 lengthwise taper, which is reasonable) it comes back to about 35-40 ml, which is still a seriously wet pattern, but is at least in the realms of possibility.
Chemistry is like cooking - just don't lick the spoon.
- Mongo
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
Here's a link if you're interested in looking at in better detail....LabRat wrote:If you assume that the 'average' is the average of the heavy oil part of the lane (which would make it a 6:1 lengthwise taper, which is reasonable) it comes back to about 35-40 ml, which is still a seriously wet pattern, but is at least in the realms of possibility.
http://www.trueamateurtournaments.com/# ... tern/c1rlu
USBC Silver Certified Coach
JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
I agree with this I came up with the same number. I think 58.4mL is about double what it probably actually is. So maybe around 30 or so mL.LabRat wrote:Zone 1 6'x3.5'x68 units/60units/ml/sq ft = 23.8ml.
Zone 2 14.3 ml
zone 3 11.7 ml
zone 4 4.1 ml
zone 5 4.5 ml.
Total 58.4 ml, which obviously is not going to be correct.
I tried this method on another pattern that has the volume and the units taken.
It was a 43' pattern with tapes taken at 8-15-22-30-35-41 ft.
The Volume I came up with was 49mL using that method, the actual volume was 24.4mL which is about half.
There's too many variables with how the oil is placed on the lane, to really estimate volume from units.
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
None of the calculations ever really work TBH
I Would say in my opinion that this pattern is a medium-high Volume short pattern based purely on lane tapes I have taken in the past that look similar too these.
My Estimate is 24 mls total
the trouble with units is that as explained in an earlier post its not a volume measurement. its actually a thickness measurement.
Think about trying to work out how much water is in a glass with just a ruler or tape measure and just measuring up the side only.
This pattern to me will play similar to the kegel Kode challenge 4137 pattern. http://www.kegel.net/V3/PatternLibraryP ... 6&VIEW=COM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Kegel pattern will play a tad longer but they will be a similar look if both were applied on an equal surface.
IMO For most players equipment set up for a THS will work on this pattern. the higher volume will in itself add length and longevity. I would expect high scores from this pattern
Greg
I Would say in my opinion that this pattern is a medium-high Volume short pattern based purely on lane tapes I have taken in the past that look similar too these.
My Estimate is 24 mls total
the trouble with units is that as explained in an earlier post its not a volume measurement. its actually a thickness measurement.
Think about trying to work out how much water is in a glass with just a ruler or tape measure and just measuring up the side only.
This pattern to me will play similar to the kegel Kode challenge 4137 pattern. http://www.kegel.net/V3/PatternLibraryP ... 6&VIEW=COM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Kegel pattern will play a tad longer but they will be a similar look if both were applied on an equal surface.
IMO For most players equipment set up for a THS will work on this pattern. the higher volume will in itself add length and longevity. I would expect high scores from this pattern
Greg
Greg Robertson.
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New stats as of 10/3/16
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Right Handed
New stats as of 10/3/16
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Rev Rate 500
Axis Rotation 40 - 90
Axis Tilt - 14
PAP - 5" over, 1/2 up
- rrb6699
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
I just had this arguement with the laneman here. he said becausethe machine is old they cannot know volume only units. he wouldnt budge on this.
the conversation started when I noticed the shot playng shorter than usual. thats when he said that they found out the reason there were less backends before was because there was 100 units of oil in the middle of the lane. he said they were tweaking the shot and now there is only 40 units of oil in the middle.
I told him that there is a volume it just has to be calculated because they took a nice shot and instead of it playing like a 42' shot, its playing like a 36' shot. then he says they oil to 36' and just buff it all the way down from there. he tried to argue when I said the oil wont buff as far down as you think.
so, this is an older Summit lane mach. do some of these setup as oil in units or not. I have not yet checked the settings on this machine.
if so, then it must be talking units applied to the roller not the lane.
comments?
rr
the conversation started when I noticed the shot playng shorter than usual. thats when he said that they found out the reason there were less backends before was because there was 100 units of oil in the middle of the lane. he said they were tweaking the shot and now there is only 40 units of oil in the middle.
I told him that there is a volume it just has to be calculated because they took a nice shot and instead of it playing like a 42' shot, its playing like a 36' shot. then he says they oil to 36' and just buff it all the way down from there. he tried to argue when I said the oil wont buff as far down as you think.
so, this is an older Summit lane mach. do some of these setup as oil in units or not. I have not yet checked the settings on this machine.
if so, then it must be talking units applied to the roller not the lane.
comments?
rr
Tweenr-RH
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
Summit is a wick machine. It doesn't offer the option to precisely program the volume of oil applied to the lane.
He is most likely running the machine and then using a tape pull-up device to measure the units of oil.
Totally different animal than the kegel and Brunswick machines that offer programmable volumes.
He is most likely running the machine and then using a tape pull-up device to measure the units of oil.
Totally different animal than the kegel and Brunswick machines that offer programmable volumes.
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
The way I worked out the volume in Mls when we had a Summit (circa 2002) was we would fill all of the oil tanks just prior to a run. Run 20 lane and then accurately refill the tanks. What oil was used was the divided x 20 and you would have your mls per lane. However it only told part of the story
a Summit has 6 oil tanks usually configured as boards 1r - 7r, boards 8r -10r, boards 11r - 20r, boards 20L - 11L, boards 10L - 8L, Boards 7L - 1L.
these are controlled in feet. there are many things that can alter or affect the application of oil.
The wick wears, Lane Cleaner liquid turns the wicks hard(will no flow oil), Pressure of the wick against the roller is wrong just to name a few and this is all x6 tanks.
100 units in the middle of the lane is not too high for a summit if measured at 15 feet.
I always aimed for 24 - 25 units in the middle of the lane within a foot of the end of the pattern. If I got that the lanes always played well for a THS. We ran 34 feet on the centre tanks both forward and reverse (actually reverse was 36 feet to create more hold) and buffed to 41 feet. 7 - 10 feet of buff zone with that machine is totally normal and if you don't have that much its carry down city.
Lane tapes were / are the only way you can be sure a summit is doing what its told.
There is no process verification like a Kegel.
Greg Robertson
a Summit has 6 oil tanks usually configured as boards 1r - 7r, boards 8r -10r, boards 11r - 20r, boards 20L - 11L, boards 10L - 8L, Boards 7L - 1L.
these are controlled in feet. there are many things that can alter or affect the application of oil.
The wick wears, Lane Cleaner liquid turns the wicks hard(will no flow oil), Pressure of the wick against the roller is wrong just to name a few and this is all x6 tanks.
100 units in the middle of the lane is not too high for a summit if measured at 15 feet.
I always aimed for 24 - 25 units in the middle of the lane within a foot of the end of the pattern. If I got that the lanes always played well for a THS. We ran 34 feet on the centre tanks both forward and reverse (actually reverse was 36 feet to create more hold) and buffed to 41 feet. 7 - 10 feet of buff zone with that machine is totally normal and if you don't have that much its carry down city.
Lane tapes were / are the only way you can be sure a summit is doing what its told.
There is no process verification like a Kegel.
Greg Robertson
Greg Robertson.
Right Handed
New stats as of 10/3/16
18 MPH at the line
Rev Rate 500
Axis Rotation 40 - 90
Axis Tilt - 14
PAP - 5" over, 1/2 up
Right Handed
New stats as of 10/3/16
18 MPH at the line
Rev Rate 500
Axis Rotation 40 - 90
Axis Tilt - 14
PAP - 5" over, 1/2 up
- rrb6699
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
I also found out they run a 12 y. o. AMF machine every other week. now i'm not sure which machine he's talking about. I just saw a guy running a summit the day before we spoke last week. now today I saw him running the AMF machine.
must not be much difference between machines - I shot a 290 this evening and shot one last week too.
its probably the same or similar technology.
rr
must not be much difference between machines - I shot a 290 this evening and shot one last week too.
its probably the same or similar technology.
rr
Tweenr-RH
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.
- LabRat
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
The Summit is an AMF machine.
Chemistry is like cooking - just don't lick the spoon.
- Pulsetech
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Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
AMF - Century same company same machine.
Greg Robertson.
Right Handed
New stats as of 10/3/16
18 MPH at the line
Rev Rate 500
Axis Rotation 40 - 90
Axis Tilt - 14
PAP - 5" over, 1/2 up
Right Handed
New stats as of 10/3/16
18 MPH at the line
Rev Rate 500
Axis Rotation 40 - 90
Axis Tilt - 14
PAP - 5" over, 1/2 up
- rrb6699
- Member
- Posts: 797
- Joined: June 22nd, 2013, 12:24 am
- THS Average: 235
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- Heavy Oil Ball: 15#-Incognito, Obsession Sld, Altered Reality, Astrophyx Prl
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- Preferred Company: Radical, Storm/Roto, Brunswk
- Location: Central Florida
Re: Reading lane patterns - units vs. mL
ok, they run 2 pf them. one has Summit on it and the other AMF. they look the same.
Tweenr-RH
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.