attacking Short sport patterns
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attacking Short sport patterns
Post in a nutshell- how do you approach short oil?
Background- I bowl a sport shot league in the summer, an every other week challenge shot league in the fall, and occasional tournaments (along with the usual house shot leagues). In this year's challenge pattern league, I came out of Abbey road and beaten path averaging 200. Then I bowled in Broadway and struggled to the tune of 650 (4 games).
I made the mistake of trying to make my usual shot work, and started way too far left. I was pretty much swinging the whole lane from shot 1. The results were predictable, every frame was either a strike or a split. I tried my forward rolling asymmetric, my pin under syms, my weakest reactives, etc, all to the same effect.
Towards the end of game 4 and in practice afterwards, I gave up trying to make my A game work, broke back my wrist, and threw the ball like I would typically throw it at spares. This turned out to be much more effective, even though I felt somewhat uncomfortable doing it.
So what SHOULD I be doing on short shots? High VAL angles on asyms? Urethane? Suck it up and throw my spare ball release up 5?
For reference, I tried the following balls:
Mastermind 50x5x40 OOB
Hyroad Solid pin under ring OOB
C300 Disorder pin under ring 4000
IQ Fusion double thumb 2000
Motiv Tribal pin over ring 4000
In the past, the only real success I've had on short patterns is the Eugene McCune rocket off the corner. However, throwing it 25 mph has an obvious negative effect on consistency.
Stats are in my sig, though my speed has dropped to 16-17 (monitor).
Background- I bowl a sport shot league in the summer, an every other week challenge shot league in the fall, and occasional tournaments (along with the usual house shot leagues). In this year's challenge pattern league, I came out of Abbey road and beaten path averaging 200. Then I bowled in Broadway and struggled to the tune of 650 (4 games).
I made the mistake of trying to make my usual shot work, and started way too far left. I was pretty much swinging the whole lane from shot 1. The results were predictable, every frame was either a strike or a split. I tried my forward rolling asymmetric, my pin under syms, my weakest reactives, etc, all to the same effect.
Towards the end of game 4 and in practice afterwards, I gave up trying to make my A game work, broke back my wrist, and threw the ball like I would typically throw it at spares. This turned out to be much more effective, even though I felt somewhat uncomfortable doing it.
So what SHOULD I be doing on short shots? High VAL angles on asyms? Urethane? Suck it up and throw my spare ball release up 5?
For reference, I tried the following balls:
Mastermind 50x5x40 OOB
Hyroad Solid pin under ring OOB
C300 Disorder pin under ring 4000
IQ Fusion double thumb 2000
Motiv Tribal pin over ring 4000
In the past, the only real success I've had on short patterns is the Eugene McCune rocket off the corner. However, throwing it 25 mph has an obvious negative effect on consistency.
Stats are in my sig, though my speed has dropped to 16-17 (monitor).
PAP- 4 1/8 over, 3/4 up
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
Re: attacking Short sport patterns
50+ views and 2 days, I'm surprised there is no response on this. Certainly many of the members of this forum bowl on sport conditions. How do you all approach short sport patterns yourselves? This doesn't have to be a discussion about me, its a discussion about lane play in general for these types of patterns.
PAP- 4 1/8 over, 3/4 up
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
-
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Re: attacking Short sport patterns
I play on Broadway a lot. I am a left hander so my experience would probably be a little bit different from yours. What I can tell you from watching my teamates bowl on this pattern is that it really depends who is bowling on your lane. The most consistent line I see is when they throw their urethane down the boards outside on the 3 board. Others have some success playing with symetrical balls playing 12-7. Longer vals work in this area of the lane, but playing here comes with a caveat on who is bowling on your lanes and where they are playing. If people are inside of you bowling on this pattern when playing 12-7 they will destroy your shot. If that is the case I would take urethane and play outside. If people are playing the track and no one is inside of you then you can play this shot as I described and just chase the shot in as the day goes on. You most likely will be going to weaker equipment as the night goes on and looking for shorter vals as the night goes on. I hope this helps.
- halfaclue
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Re: attacking Short sport patterns
Do you know the pattern? If so, highest red bar from the composite graph. Play break points right of that location.
Don't now the pattern. Start playing up the gutter. Something like lay down points around 5/6/7 with break points of 2/3/4. Good starting point.
Do we know volume? This will help with surface prep and starting ball strength.
Don't now the pattern. Start playing up the gutter. Something like lay down points around 5/6/7 with break points of 2/3/4. Good starting point.
Do we know volume? This will help with surface prep and starting ball strength.
Dan
Ball speed: 19 mph (off hand)
Tilt: 18*
Rotation: 55*
Ball speed: 19 mph (off hand)
Tilt: 18*
Rotation: 55*
- Nsane
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Re: attacking Short sport patterns
Theere are 2 versions of the Pattern.
50 ml pump
DISTANCE:37'
VOLUME:23.25
FORWARD:11.00
REVERSE:12.25
RATIO:1:4.09
40 ml pump
DISTANCE:37' = Exitpoint board 6
VOLUME:23.32
FORWARD:10.96
REVERSE:12.36
RATIO:1:3.55
KEGEL: This 37 foot pattern is named after the wide open street in Manhattan called BROADWAY, which ironically originates at a park called Bowling Green. BROADWAY was originally translated from the Dutch name of ‘Breede weg’ because of its location in New Amsterdam. Because of the medium short length of this pattern and light volume of conditioner towards the outside portion of the lane, players can arrive to the pocket on the BROADWAY from multiple directions.
I bowled this succesfull targeting to 10 pin, stand @ 15 with syms drilled MotionHole.
50 ml pump
DISTANCE:37'
VOLUME:23.25
FORWARD:11.00
REVERSE:12.25
RATIO:1:4.09
40 ml pump
DISTANCE:37' = Exitpoint board 6
VOLUME:23.32
FORWARD:10.96
REVERSE:12.36
RATIO:1:3.55
KEGEL: This 37 foot pattern is named after the wide open street in Manhattan called BROADWAY, which ironically originates at a park called Bowling Green. BROADWAY was originally translated from the Dutch name of ‘Breede weg’ because of its location in New Amsterdam. Because of the medium short length of this pattern and light volume of conditioner towards the outside portion of the lane, players can arrive to the pocket on the BROADWAY from multiple directions.
High Bar is 12 on both.Do you know the pattern? If so, highest red bar from the composite graph. Play break points right of that location.
I bowled this succesfull targeting to 10 pin, stand @ 15 with syms drilled MotionHole.
Ducati what else?
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nice people press +
- LabRat
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Re: attacking Short sport patterns
Short patterns are hard. Broadway is not that short, though.
On one hand, you still want the ball to transition in the pattern, otherwise speed control - which is already critical on short - becomes even more critical. Usually it's best to play out, so generating entry angle is not an issue. Rev dominant guys usually want to use higher totals and big val angles, which is often suicide - 25' of backend and a long hook zone means trouble.
Decreasing axis rotation helps to control the pocket. If you have high rotation, use layouts that burn it fast and have shorter hook zones. If the sandpaper brigade are insisting of wrecking everything inside of the shot, shell down and stay out as long as you can. Eventually they will build you a hang spot a little deeper and you can then jump inside them and hook the lane.
Topography and lane wear can have drastic effects on the playability of short patterns.
On one hand, you still want the ball to transition in the pattern, otherwise speed control - which is already critical on short - becomes even more critical. Usually it's best to play out, so generating entry angle is not an issue. Rev dominant guys usually want to use higher totals and big val angles, which is often suicide - 25' of backend and a long hook zone means trouble.
Decreasing axis rotation helps to control the pocket. If you have high rotation, use layouts that burn it fast and have shorter hook zones. If the sandpaper brigade are insisting of wrecking everything inside of the shot, shell down and stay out as long as you can. Eventually they will build you a hang spot a little deeper and you can then jump inside them and hook the lane.
Topography and lane wear can have drastic effects on the playability of short patterns.
Chemistry is like cooking - just don't lick the spoon.
Re: attacking Short sport patterns
Great to see all the responses. Thanks for chiming in, everyone.
Let me start with this:
I realize 37 feet is not super short. In fact, thats what led me to start the post in the first place. If I had trouble with the amount of hook on Broadway, what the heck am I going to do when I find myself on Cheetah or, worse, Wolf?
I also realize that I want the breakpoint to be out on short patterns and, preferably, play straighter up the lane early on. I'm aware of the red bar technique Mo uses for sport shots. I guess the best way to put it is this: I have an understanding of where to play short shots, but I seem to be struggling with how to put that into action.
For instance, I started warm ups in about the zones everyone is mentioning. My ball hit the 4 pin. One by one, all of my balls went flying past the head pin. There was just no way I was going to be able to play the 12-7 (or so) unless I changed something else. I struggled because I was stubborn and decided to play the only line my A game would allow, the big swing, instead of changing that something else. That was a disaster, but it was a great learning moment that I'll be able to take with me to future tournaments and leagues.
How are you guys able to stay up the boards, even on the fresh? LabRat, you listed several options, do you prefer to change your release by coming up the back more or would you rather throw hook/set reactions first? What makes a high VAL angle bad on these patterns (Chico listed it as a positive, as have Kegel people in articles I've read)? Is it better to use a urethane and your A game, or a resin with a B game (less revs and/or more speed)?
Let me start with this:
I realize 37 feet is not super short. In fact, thats what led me to start the post in the first place. If I had trouble with the amount of hook on Broadway, what the heck am I going to do when I find myself on Cheetah or, worse, Wolf?
I also realize that I want the breakpoint to be out on short patterns and, preferably, play straighter up the lane early on. I'm aware of the red bar technique Mo uses for sport shots. I guess the best way to put it is this: I have an understanding of where to play short shots, but I seem to be struggling with how to put that into action.
For instance, I started warm ups in about the zones everyone is mentioning. My ball hit the 4 pin. One by one, all of my balls went flying past the head pin. There was just no way I was going to be able to play the 12-7 (or so) unless I changed something else. I struggled because I was stubborn and decided to play the only line my A game would allow, the big swing, instead of changing that something else. That was a disaster, but it was a great learning moment that I'll be able to take with me to future tournaments and leagues.
How are you guys able to stay up the boards, even on the fresh? LabRat, you listed several options, do you prefer to change your release by coming up the back more or would you rather throw hook/set reactions first? What makes a high VAL angle bad on these patterns (Chico listed it as a positive, as have Kegel people in articles I've read)? Is it better to use a urethane and your A game, or a resin with a B game (less revs and/or more speed)?
PAP- 4 1/8 over, 3/4 up
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
- LabRat
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Re: attacking Short sport patterns
You are slightly rev dominant with highish rotation. That means, given the opportunity the ball will cover a lot of boards. Short patterns give the ball that opportunity. You need to physically reduce the potential for your ball to cover boards if you want to play a straighter line.
Reducing axis rotation is one very effective way to do this, IF you can do it consistently. I can, so it's my favoured adjustment, but I don't have as much ar as you for my A game (about 50*). You can shell down, but my Tornado outhooks my Virtual World on Stockholm, because the (asym) VW has a 5.5" pin-PAP and burns rotation faster than the 4" pin on the (sym) Tornado. I can also stay straight with my pin axis VG, so long as there is oil in the heads. When everything you throw will transition fully because of the length of the pattern, the potential to cover boards controls how much the ball moves.
Big VAL angles let the ball hook for a long time. Combine that with rev dominance and 65* of rotation, its allowing the ball to hook a LOT for a long time. An option is to get the ball through the hook phase quickly so it sets and rolls into the pocket. That means low val angles. You wouldn't do that for a speed dominant guy with low rotation. It's bowler & pattern specific.
Reducing axis rotation is one very effective way to do this, IF you can do it consistently. I can, so it's my favoured adjustment, but I don't have as much ar as you for my A game (about 50*). You can shell down, but my Tornado outhooks my Virtual World on Stockholm, because the (asym) VW has a 5.5" pin-PAP and burns rotation faster than the 4" pin on the (sym) Tornado. I can also stay straight with my pin axis VG, so long as there is oil in the heads. When everything you throw will transition fully because of the length of the pattern, the potential to cover boards controls how much the ball moves.
Big VAL angles let the ball hook for a long time. Combine that with rev dominance and 65* of rotation, its allowing the ball to hook a LOT for a long time. An option is to get the ball through the hook phase quickly so it sets and rolls into the pocket. That means low val angles. You wouldn't do that for a speed dominant guy with low rotation. It's bowler & pattern specific.
Chemistry is like cooking - just don't lick the spoon.
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Re: attacking Short sport patterns
I'd also like to add that Kyle's rev rate is 425 MINIMUM!!!!!!!!
Rev rate ~ 350
Speed 17.5 at foul line
Tilt 8*
Rotation ~ 55*
PAP 4 1/4 right x 1 up
Speed 17.5 at foul line
Tilt 8*
Rotation ~ 55*
PAP 4 1/4 right x 1 up
Re: attacking Short sport patterns
Out of curiosity, which one is Kyle?mattypizon wrote:I'd also like to add that Kyle's rev rate is 425 MINIMUM!!!!!!!!
Can't tell all the players without a scorecard.
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.
John
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.
John
- LabRat
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Re: attacking Short sport patterns
Kyle's the one in the green hat.
(OK, I think Bahshay is Kyle.)
(OK, I think Bahshay is Kyle.)
Chemistry is like cooking - just don't lick the spoon.
Re: attacking Short sport patterns
Yes, I'm Kyle. My specs are per Mo, though they were taken nearly a year ago now.
PAP- 4 1/8 over, 3/4 up
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
- SST
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Re: attacking Short sport patterns
Have you see on BTM or bowlingknowledge.info Joe Slowinski's article on LSL and SLL to play on short patterns ?
It is very instructive.
It is very instructive.
Patrice
- rrb6699
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Re: attacking Short sport patterns
I won a tournament on Cheetah not long ago playing a ball with a strongish cover drilled pin up to go long. the breakpoint was around 8-9 I used. had nothing to do with pl-31. in the final the guy I was bowling played the gutter pretty good and I had to double to win with a small deuce.
but, if I had to bowl more games I would've had to move myself to the gutter as well.
this may only have worked that day but I was executing shots very well that day using less AOR and coming up the back of the ball. I left easy spares and made them.
rr
but, if I had to bowl more games I would've had to move myself to the gutter as well.
this may only have worked that day but I was executing shots very well that day using less AOR and coming up the back of the ball. I left easy spares and made them.
rr
Tweenr-RH
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.