Guru vs. Everything Else

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kboveington
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by kboveington »

Very cool video. And definitely one of the most detailed currently out. I must admit I wanted to see it compared to the crux, as well as the mastermind. Maybe next video you could put all the balls at the same surface?
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by LabRat »

kboveington wrote:Very cool video. And definitely one of the most detailed currently out. I must admit I wanted to see it compared to the crux, as well as the mastermind. Maybe next video you could put all the balls at the same surface?
I've been thinking about Mo's comment regarding surface and I think he is right. The manufacturers do what they do for a reason. If they promote a ball as for heavy oil, then it should be finished with a surface appropriate for that condition. If it isn't, that's not Mo's problem. Leaving them at box also means there is no bias into the surface chosen - the test maintains the integrity of the manufacturers intent.
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by Mo Pinel »

LabRat wrote: I've been thinking about Mo's comment regarding surface and I think he is right. The manufacturers do what they do for a reason. If they promote a ball as for heavy oil, then it should be finished with a surface appropriate for that condition. If it isn't, that's not Mo's problem. Leaving them at box also means there is no bias into the surface chosen - the test maintains the integrity of the manufacturers intent.
Thanks for the confirmation. I thought the same way you did.
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by Mo Pinel »

kboveington wrote:Very cool video. And definitely one of the most detailed currently out. I must admit I wanted to see it compared to the crux, as well as the mastermind. Maybe next video you could put all the balls at the same surface?
The Crux was not available when the test was done, or it would have been there.
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kboveington
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by kboveington »

Those are all valid points. However I think putting the balls at the exact same surface neutralizes the playing field completely. For example the deadly aim is finished at 4000. Of course that ball will go 60ft on heavy oil. Most competitive bowlers would put a lower grit on that ball if the intent was to use it on heavy oil.

Honestly the sinister looked to be a better heavy oil ball. I personally liked the heavier mid lane roll compared to the guru. However the guru might be a good complimentary piece once the sinister is too early or starts hitting flat. Looks like I would be able to move further left and trust the ball would come back.

I still enjoyed the video and thought it was very informative. Just trying to make a good thing even better.
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by mattypizon »

Mo: thank you for the Guru layout recommendation!!! It is amazing. I added a 15/16 x 3 p3 balance hole and it is exactly what i hoped it would be.

Bahshay and i were really impressed with the overall hook of this ball. I was playing 5th arrow and breaking around 7 going dead flush. The roll is strong but super consistent, no jumpiness at the break, just pure power.

I won't pull any punches here......I love my Sinister but the Guru is definitely the most overall hook I have experienced without the erratic transition that gets you in trouble. Im expecting good scores with this one!
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by Mo Pinel »

mattypizon wrote:Mo: thank you for the Guru layout recommendation!!! It is amazing. I added a 15/16 x 3 p3 balance hole and it is exactly what i hoped it would be.

Bahshay and i were really impressed with the overall hook of this ball. I was playing 5th arrow and breaking around 7 going dead flush. The roll is strong but super consistent, no jumpiness at the break, just pure power.

I won't pull any punches here......I love my Sinister but the Guru is definitely the most overall hook I have experienced without the erratic transition that gets you in trouble. Im expecting good scores with this one!
Fair enough!!!!! The Guru is something very special. And the Sinister is a nice ball.
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by Bahshay »

mattypizon wrote:Mo: thank you for the Guru layout recommendation!!! It is amazing. I added a 15/16 x 3 p3 balance hole and it is exactly what i hoped it would be.

Bahshay and i were really impressed with the overall hook of this ball. I was playing 5th arrow and breaking around 7 going dead flush. The roll is strong but super consistent, no jumpiness at the break, just pure power.

I won't pull any punches here......I love my Sinister but the Guru is definitely the most overall hook I have experienced without the erratic transition that gets you in trouble. Im expecting good scores with this one!
I feel like Matt sold the ball short by saying that he and I were impressed by the amount of hook. The motion also received praise from the pro shop assistant, bowling alley manager, and the bowlers next to us. Impressive ball indeed.
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by davidjr113 »

Mo

This refers to your comment on Sinister but really applies to all balls. You said Sinister tested at 1800 grit on the prophylometer, despite it reported 4000 OOB by Rotogrip. BJI, who you referred to, reports
3150 effective grit. Can you elaborate on these differences 1800/3150/4000 and similar ones with other makers? Thanks

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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by Mo Pinel »

davidjr113 wrote:Mo

This refers to your comment on Sinister but really applies to all balls. You said Sinister tested at 1800 grit on the prophylometer, despite it reported 4000 OOB by Rotogrip. BJI, who you referred to, reports
3150 effective grit. Can you elaborate on these differences 1800/3150/4000 and similar ones with other makers? Thanks

Dave
Check with BJI on how they arrived at their #. Mine is an approximation based on balls that have previously been tested.
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by 56bird »

I have a few comments and a question.

In regards to the OOB surface, I think it was a question of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Even if the testers had adjusted all of these to a particular surface, you'd have people saying "well, my favorite ball would have done much better if you'd chosen a different surface", or, "How are we to know the surface adjustments were the same... brand new pads every time, same exact duration and pressure...", maybe if it had all been machine-done you might dodge the questions but I'm not sure.

You might have done the biggest favor to Ebonite. There's a general concensus out there that the top shelf Ebonite products are piss-weak compared to the other bigs, well my recent experience with a Pivot Point says otherwise and so does this test. Makes one wonder (again) about the "Perfect Scale" (Pivot is around 212, Sinister is what, 230?). They look roughly the same to me in the test. Ebonite's marketing is truly vanilla and hype-free, but they are making some good stuff.

Comparing the Guru to the Sinister/Pivot, I do wonder what accounts for the difference in the way they read (with the Guru longer, but as strong or stronger than the other two). Is it the somewhat lower diff of the Guru? The slightly higher Mass Bias? Something to do with the core shape (drilled numbers)? It is what it is, but I find it interesting.

My final thought should be an obvious observation if it's not. Only one manufacturer today has the cajones to publish such a comparison.
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by Mo Pinel »

56bird wrote:I have a few comments and a question.

In regards to the OOB surface, I think it was a question of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Even if the testers had adjusted all of these to a particular surface, you'd have people saying "well, my favorite ball would have done much better if you'd chosen a different surface", or, "How are we to know the surface adjustments were the same... brand new pads every time, same exact duration and pressure...", maybe if it had all been machine-done you might dodge the questions but I'm not sure.

You might have done the biggest favor to Ebonite. There's a general concensus out there that the top shelf Ebonite products are piss-weak compared to the other bigs, well my recent experience with a Pivot Point says otherwise and so does this test. Makes one wonder (again) about the "Perfect Scale" (Pivot is around 212, Sinister is what, 230?). They look roughly the same to me in the test. Ebonite's marketing is truly vanilla and hype-free, but they are making some good stuff.

Comparing the Guru to the Sinister/Pivot, I do wonder what accounts for the difference in the way they read (with the Guru longer, but as strong or stronger than the other two). Is it the somewhat lower diff of the Guru? The slightly higher Mass Bias? Something to do with the core shape (drilled numbers)? It is what it is, but I find it interesting.

My final thought should be an obvious observation if it's not. Only one manufacturer today has the cajones to publish such a comparison.
Image
Truly valid observations.

Your paragraph:

Comparing the Guru to the Sinister/Pivot, I do wonder what accounts for the difference in the way they read (with the Guru longer, but as strong or stronger than the other two). Is it the somewhat lower diff of the Guru? The slightly higher Mass Bias? Something to do with the core shape (drilled numbers)? It is what it is, but I find it interesting.

The answer is the unique core shape of the Guru. Related to a factor other than RGs, and diffs. That test is confirmation of our proprietary technology stemming from the good, old Offset patent.
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by Pulsetech »

Mo is that the principal the 3D Offset Hammers (Faball) were made on ?

Loved those balls in the mid to late 90's
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by Mo Pinel »

Pulsetech wrote:Mo is that the principal the 3D Offset Hammers (Faball) were made on ?

Loved those balls in the mid to late 90's
The original 3D Offsets were the beginning of this technology, but at a much lower level of it. There's more to come.
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Re: Guru vs. Everything Else

Post by Pulsetech »

Thanks for your Reply Mo

Those balls were revolutionary
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